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Winner of nan 2026 Pulitzer Prize for Drama and nominated for 5 Tony Awards, including Best Play and, for Whitney White, Best Direction of a Play, Bess Wohl‘s Liberation was 1 of nan astir singular Broadway productions successful caller years erstwhile it deed nan James Earl Jones Theatre past fall, a blend of past and present, laughter and tears, representation and reality, seeking and probity, each layered pinch nan bittersweet realization that sometimes, erstwhile reaching toward fulfillment, nan scope is nan reward.
Certainly Liberation astir afloat embodies its title successful its reaches – nan scope of 1 psyche to another, nan scope that contains righteous anger, nan scope for fairness and equity and nan reach, nevertheless futile, toward those we’ve loved and mislaid and want much than thing to revisit and understand.
The mounting is an unidentified municipality successful Ohio successful nan early 1970s, a rec halfway that plays big to a play gathering of 7 women, each walks of life, who are intrigued by this caller talk of Women’s Liberation and consciousness-raising. So different are these pioneers that others successful nan halfway presume there’s immoderate benignant of knitting circle going on. There isn’t. What’s going connected present is thing little than a benignant of federation building, laying nan nature for a caller measurement of surviving and seeing nan world. Even nan pioneers person nary existent thought what they mightiness accomplish, aliases neglect to accomplish, aliases execute and past lose, leaving nan group leader’s now grown girl – successful nan coming time – hopeless to delve into that long-ago and find what drove her mother and immoderate awesome friends to specified heights of imagination and camaraderie and foresight, and really nan daughter’s ain procreation has landed successful an era wherever truthful galore of those aged hard-fought victories person been peeled distant 1 by one.
In this interview, playwright Wohl and head White person a speech pinch Deadline astir nan origins of nan play, its development, what is has to opportunity to nan coming and astir nan past, and really a group of woman, mean and bonzer each astatine once, recovered their spot successful a world.
Liberation, a Roundabout Theatre Company presentation, is Tony nominated for Best Play (Bess Wohl), Best Direction of a Play (Whitney White), Best Performance by an Actress successful a Leading Role successful a Play (Susannah Flood), Best Performance by an Actress successful a Featured Role successful a Play (Betsy Aidem) and Best Costume Design of a Play (Qween Jean). The play began previews astatine Broadway’s James Earl Jones Theatre connected October 8, 2025, opened connected October 28, 2025, and ended its constricted engagement February 1, 2026.
In summation to Susannah Flood and Betsy Aidem, nan Broadway formed included Audrey Corsa, Kayla Davion, Kristolyn Lloyd, Irene Sofia Lucio, Adina Verson and Charlie Thurston.
This question and reply has been edited and condensed for magnitude and clarity.
DEADLINE: Bess, show america really you came to constitute this play, peculiarly astir your mother’s influence.
BESS WOHL: I person been reasoning astir this play for a very, very agelong time. In a way, I consciousness for illustration I was calved to constitute this play, successful that it was partially inspired by my mother, and successful peculiar by nan truth that she worked astatine Ms. Magazine erstwhile I was a small kid. In fact, my earliest grounds of being astatine Ms. Magazine is arsenic a babe virtually bouncing connected her knee.
DEADLINE: You were calved to this.
WOHL: You know, I can’t retrieve a clip erstwhile I wasn’t reasoning astir these things, moreover arsenic a 4-year-old sitting connected nan level of her agency arsenic she typed away, playing pinch non-gender-specific toys, looking astatine nan Wonder Woman pictures connected nan wall. I was conscionable ever successful nan conversation. I would march successful ERA rallies pinch her, you know? I was aware. I had these Great Women flashcards pinch Sojourner Truth and Susan B. Anthony. Like, that was what I had alternatively of shot cards, you know? So I was ever reasoning astir these things, and past arsenic I sewage older, and nan world moved guardant and besides backwards successful definite ways, I realized that a batch of nan questions that she had been asking erstwhile I was a small kid, I was still asking successful my ain life. The ways that she navigated her ambition and her feminism and her life arsenic a woman and mother became questions that I was asking, too. So, I wanted to put a type of myself, a benignant of avatar for myself, successful speech pinch her, and effort to benignant of excavation into immoderate of nan things I was wondering astir successful a very urgent way.
DEADLINE: And Whitney, show maine really you came into this.
Whitney White: It’s funny, I was looking done my emails to really pinpoint nan time Bess Wohl came into my life. We started talking, ohio my gosh, was it 2023, I want to say? I’m virtually looking it up. Yeah, it was aft Jaja‘s had opened [Jaja’s African Hair Braiding by Jocelyn Bioh, which White directed], successful ’23, ’24, and I really publication her book first, and this was to helm nan accumulation astatine nan Roundabout, and I effort to publication thing I really want to direct. I person to publication it first earlier I meet nan person, because I emotion artists truthful much, to beryllium honest, and truthful I person to support myself honorable by really making judge I link to nan work, and truthful I gave nan book a read, and nan first publication went by for illustration lightning for me, and I’ll ne'er hide really large nan characters were successful my mind, really vividly drawn they were. That’s a very uncommon thing. Extremely rare, erstwhile an creator has specified a afloat conceptualization of who nan group are, their socioeconomics, their politics, wherever they’re from, what they eat, what they judge in, you know, what they emotion and what they hate, and I deliberation that nan spot of that constituent of position drew maine into nan world. And I’m besides from nan Midwest, and I was truthful relieved and thrilled that this female was looking astatine a quintessential governmental clip successful nan American heartland. A batch of group had been struggling for liberation each complete nan country, not conscionable connected nan coasts, not conscionable successful Ivy Leagues, but regular people, real-world people.
And I was struck by that, and past we had a meal together, it was our first date, truthful to speak, and past erstwhile I met her and heard her communicative and her relationship to it, I conscionable knew it had to be, and we embarked connected mounting it Off Broadway.
DEADLINE: I’m from nan Midwest, too. Ohio, actually. Bess, is location a peculiar metropolis successful Ohio that Liberation is based on?
WOHL: You know, I’ve intentionally kept it a small spot ambiguous successful nan matter because I didn’t want to pin myself down excessively much, I wanted to time off myself creator license. But I did publication an astonishing book called Feminism successful nan Heartland by Judith Ezekiel, and her book takes spot successful Dayton, Ohio…
DEADLINE: Yes! I knew it! That’s me, calved and raised, truthful I want to talk to you astir authenticity.
WOHL: That book really was a immense root of inspiration for me, and I think, arsenic an artist, I wanted to time off immoderate benignant of enigma and elasticity and abstraction astir it, but, that decidedly was a spot that was connected my mind erstwhile I was penning it.
DEADLINE: I was a kid successful Dayton erstwhile this play takes spot successful nan early ’70s, and I person to opportunity you really sewage it. Those characters, nan setting, each look very acquainted to me. It feels very authentic to me. But besides what I retrieve astir nan taxable of women’s liberation past is it being benignant of successful nan civilization – connected TV, particularly sitcoms like All successful nan Family, and Good Times moreover had an section wherever Florida went to 1 of a consciousness-raising groups for illustration nan 1 you depict. But a batch of times it was played for laughs. Usually those shows, astatine slightest nan Norman Lear sitcoms, came down connected nan broadside of nan women, but nan jokes often came astatine nan disbursal of nan women arsenic well. You know, tons of jokes astir who wants to deterioration nan pants successful nan family. Do either of you spot this Liberation, successful each of its authenticity, arsenic a benignant of corrective to that popular civilization image we person from that clip period?
White: I surely do, and I deliberation it’s interesting, I ever for illustration to return a somesthesia trial erstwhile I’m moving connected something, and I retrieve asking truthful galore people, hey, what do you cognize astir nan ’70s? And truthful galore group would say, oh, That ’70s Show, aliases each these cliche things, and I don’t cognize whether that’s a nonaccomplishment of nan acquisition system, aliases conscionable wherever nan ’60s unrecorded successful our consciousness, but nan ’60s is specified a vivid clip successful nan American, benignant of, groupthink, but I deliberation that creating a humanizing image of women successful that time, astatine slightest staging it for me, I did consciousness benignant of corrective astir it.
Directing this play, I was actively engaged successful an effort to show regular, mean women arsenic superb group who are struggling for individual and governmental gain, you know? The knitting circle joke, let’s conscionable talk astir that, that joke Bess has successful Scene 1 is truthful brilliant. The information defender goes, oh, You’re present for immoderate knitting circle, you know, that these women conscionable meet up and look astatine their Ps – I won’t committedness – and knit for each other. No, they were school each different each these basal things and endurance skills. So I recovered successful nan text, Bess was brilliantly humanizing and intellectualizing a very valiant effort that group return for granted and caricaturize.
WOHL: I emotion that you located that, Greg, because it was very overmuch connected my mind arsenic well. You know, successful Whitney’s production, obviously, she was truthful observant not to thin into caricature aliases benignant of “the ’70s” successful quotes. But successful reasoning astir conscionable what is simply a consciousness-raising group, I was alert that location were each of these representations of these silly, benignant of played-for-laughs consciousness-raising groups, moreover successful plays that I love, for illustration successful Uncommon Women and Others. I deliberation Wendy Wasserstein has a consciousness-raising group, and I emotion nan play, and I emotion her work, but I was willing successful seeing if I could find a somewhat more…let’s say, successful my type of it, I wanted to put successful nan difficulties and nan truths and nan hard-won victories wrong nan consciousness-raising groups. So, location were moments erstwhile I was moreover acrophobic of nan humor, and I’m a writer who loves to usage joke successful my work.
But I was acrophobic to spell excessively funny because I ne'er wanted to beryllium sending them up. I wanted nan texture of nan joke to beryllium respectful. I wanted america to beryllium laughing pinch them, alternatively than laughing astatine them. That was really important to me, and I deliberation nan actors brilliantly recovered that equilibrium arsenic well, because there’s a razor’s edge, particularly successful that first segment wherever something’s really funny for illustration Margie says she mightiness stab her hubby to death. And then, a fewer minutes later, Isidora is sitting location weeping astir being trapped successful this greenish paper matrimony and being acrophobic she’s gonna get pregnant and not cognize what to do, you know? And it’s conscionable these really, really, delicate moves that let some registers of humanity to beryllium truthful adjacent to each other.
DEADLINE: I deliberation group who haven’t seen nan play mightiness not recognize really funny it is. One of nan taste stereotypes of that era, possibly moreover still today, is that feminists are truthful serious, they deficiency senses of humor. Again, Liberation is benignant of a corrective to that. Was that successful your mind?
WOHL: Yeah, arsenic I said I want to beryllium laughing pinch them. It’s an absorbing thing, right, because they were very funny women, conscionable they themselves had a very, very delightful, delicious consciousness of humor. You know, Gloria Steinem is 1 of nan funniest people, and erstwhile she really came to nan show astatine nan Roundabout, and we very earnestly thanked her for her work to humanity, she conscionable kept saying to us, it was fun, it was fun. So we knew that joke and joyousness and laughing together was portion of nan Resistance.
DEADLINE: Whitney, really did you bring retired that joke successful nan performances?
White: I americium a awesome student of what I telephone our grandest tradition, which is drama performance, which stems each nan measurement backmost to Black performers connected nan vaudeville circuit, and to Lucille Ball, and Martin Lawrence and Richard Pryor. We person an unthinkable history astir nan hit and intellectualization and capacity of comedy. And so, I approached this successful a very method way, because there’s each these different types of comedy, right? There’s situation-based, there’s text-based, there’s character-based. And successful moving pinch nan women, we really tried to place what was what. For example, erstwhile Susannah Flood’s characteristic Lizzie [introduces herself to nan audience], I had to rehearse that a plethora of ways to get that, and past propulsion that backmost into a humanistic way, right? And truthful I approached it, like, very consciously, to beryllium honest, and you cognize my favourite is “Who’s connected First.” Do you cognize “Who’s connected First?”
DEADLINE: Of course. Abbott and Costello.
White: One of nan greatest. I deliberation almost each play I direct, I make actors watch it, because nan hit and audacity and comedic power is truthful incredible. So we watched videos, we watched clips, we discussed what benignant of drama location was and wherever we recovered really that was aligned and useful to nan text, and not harmful. Again, for illustration Beth said, I want you to laughter pinch america and not astatine us. But I would opportunity it was for illustration an world push, and it was thing we each studied.
WOHL: What’s truthful awesome astir Whitney’s guidance successful this play is she went each nan measurement into nan joke and each nan measurement into nan pain. Do you cognize what I mean? She took it and just, like, stretched it successful some directions arsenic acold arsenic possible, and I deliberation that’s what really achieved that benignant of consciousness of size and import for nan full piece.
DEADLINE: Without doing spoilers, nan segment yet erstwhile mother and girl person nan conversation, it’s some funny and it’s sad, but there’s besides a benignant of wistfulness to it that I must ideate is difficult to get connected stage. The bittersweetness of looking back, not really being afloat capable to explicate yourself to a younger personification and a younger personification not afloat capable to explicate herself to nan older person, particularly erstwhile that older personification is nary longer living, but having to find immoderate benignant of bridge. How do you task that connected a stage?
White: It’s funny, this is simply a very superb mobility you’re asking, because I deliberation what drew maine to nan portion was nan intergenerational speech being had. And I myself, and I don’t want to speak for Bess but I deliberation she is too, we’re some astatine a crossroads wherever we’re mothers, and yet we still person parents living. We’re looking guardant and backmost each of nan time, and nan statement of speech from Audrey Corsa’s characteristic each nan measurement done Betsy Aidems’ characteristic is 1 that has conflict and emotion and mothering and siblinghood. And to your mobility of really we do that, I conscionable kept asking myself nan galore ways that female relationships manifest themselves. Bess Wohl has been my friend, she has been my sister, she has been my teacher, and vice versa, and I’m gonna bring up a crazy reference, but Natural Born Killers is a movie I besides watched erstwhile I was reasoning astir directing this, because…
DEADLINE: Okay, I wasn’t expecting that!
White: Stick pinch me. In that film, a man and female spell done each permutation that benignant of narration tin have. Siblinghood, lover, mother, father, each these things. And similarly, female-to-female relationships are conscionable arsenic deep. In nan piece, we person a queer emotion circle, a small triangle. We person a young woman, Audrey Korsa’s characteristic Dora, benignant of bucking against a group of older women, who presume that she doesn’t person an soul life and that she shouldn’t moreover kick astir her existence, right? Their relationships arsenic women are extremely, highly analyzable and enriching. Bess lets them beryllium complex, afloat of conflict, and yet afloat of love. And I honestly conscionable tried to grant that, to honestly fto nan conflict beryllium existent conflict, don’t play it down. Let nan emotion beryllium searing hot, don’t move nan measurement down connected it, you know? And conscionable move everything up arsenic overmuch arsenic you can, because I deliberation it takes that overmuch effort for group to understand really analyzable and heavy women are.
WOHL: Yeah, I deliberation yes to each of that. I didn’t cognize that that [mother-daughter] segment was needfully wherever I was going, actually, erstwhile I wrote nan first drafts of nan play. I don’t constitute pinch an outline, because I consciousness that if I’m not making discoveries connected nan page, arsenic a writer, past nan assemblage won’t consciousness surprised. The assemblage won’t beryllium discovering things. So, successful a way, I request to benignant of cognize what nan questions are that nan play is asking, and proceed to travel those questions, but I don’t needfully cognize plot-wise really nan pieces are each going to fresh together. So for me, erstwhile nan characteristic of Margie says that she would measurement successful to beryllium Lizzie’s mother successful that moment, I was like, I mean, I really felt stunned. And yet, connected immoderate subconscious level, obviously, I had group that up because I had group up nan connection of actors stepping into different roles. The characteristic Joanne besides steps into nan domiciled of nan mother, and of course, Lizzie steps into nan domiciled of nan mother successful nan opening of nan play. So it’s nan 3rd clip that personification has stepped into nan domiciled of Lizzie’s mother, which I deliberation is why, for nan audience, it doesn’t consciousness jarring aliases strange, because we’ve seen it hap doubly before. So dramaturgically, it’s really sound. But I didn’t scheme it successful a benignant of outline form. I felt for illustration I had created nan anticipation for it to happen, but erstwhile it happened, it almost felt for illustration it was astonishing maine arsenic overmuch arsenic anyone else. For maine and my writing, nan moments that are nan astir successful are nan ones wherever I’m amazed by wherever nan characters are taking me.
White: And that segment is playing connected a very tried and existent shape of spiritualism. You person personification embody personification who is nary longer surviving pinch us. And there’s truthful galore beautiful references crossed nan world successful position of really different ritualistic spaces inhabit that benignant of thing. We conscionable staged it successful each those different ways. I conjecture what I’m trying to opportunity is, I brought up this weird film, Natural Born Killers, because location was a batch of experimentation. You inquire us, really do we do it? We activity for illustration huffy scientists! We alteration it again and again. I retrieve 1 time location was a type of that segment wherever it was much, overmuch fuller, and Bess would pass to maine what she preferred and didn’t prefer, and past I would bring successful investigation astir spiritualism and embodiment and transference and each this stuff, and truthful we benignant of made, like, a small subject lab, and we had to effort it a batch of ways to find nan correct balance. You know, I’d springiness thing to beryllium capable to spell backmost to those days erstwhile we were cooking successful that room together.
DEADLINE: I’m imagining each of you – writer, director, actors – successful this room together that’s not dissimilar what we spot connected shape pinch nan women successful nan consciousness-raising group.
WOHL: It decidedly did hap to me, arsenic we were rehearsing, that we were our ain consciousness-raising group successful nan rehearsal room. And past it occurred to me, erstwhile we were successful nan theater, that nan play positive nan assemblage was different consciousness-raising group, that nan group kept getting larger and larger, because evidently nan constituent of theatre and art, astatine slightest successful part, is to raise people’s consciousness, right? To create a infinitesimal of awakening, to person group time off nan theatre seeing each different otherwise than they did connected nan measurement in. So, I think, to your question, location was a consciousness successful nan rehearsal room that a group of performers was forming thing that was not wholly dissimilar nan consciousness raising group of nan play, and they were supporting each other. They were sharing stories of different things that had happened successful their lives, funny, traumatic, everything. The ones who were mothers, immoderate of them were pumping successful nan dressing rooms, and they were watching each other’s babe monitors while nan different 1 was connected stage. They’re still awesome friends and a awesome ensemble, which is why it was truthful typical to beryllium capable to bring each azygous 1 of them from Roundabout [Off Broadway] to Broadway. I don’t want to speak for them, but nan consciousness that I person from seeing them together is that, successful nan aforesaid measurement that I based this connected a existent group of women who person been together done life, I would not beryllium amazed if this group of actors is together successful different ways done life.
White: I’ve really been reflecting connected what has made this travel truthful unforgettable, and you brought it up yourself, Greg, erstwhile you utilized nan A connection – authenticity. In rehearsal, what mirrored nan play was an authentic acquisition of becoming a community. That was a existent thing. It wasn’t fake. There’s thing astatine nan bosom of nan process that decidedly infected our relationships, and for illustration Beth said, it will enactment pinch america for life.
DEADLINE: Are you amazed astatine nan measurement this play and this accumulation landed, successful position of… Oh, wait, I didn’t moreover opportunity congratulations, Bess! You conscionable won nan Pulitzer Prize! Congratulations. Congratulations to some of you, because I cognize nan prize goes to nan writer but Whitney you helped bring nan play to life.
WOHL: Oh, it’s a group effort.
DEADLINE: So were either of you amazed astatine nan impact?
White: I’m gonna beryllium honest, I americium not. Even nan first draft. We had respective workshops earlier we moreover went into rehearsal. I publication truthful galore scripts and it’s very uncommon to person a two-act Grand American play pinch arsenic overmuch history, research, constituent of view, and governmental awakening arsenic Liberation. I was like, if we tin conscionable support going, I cognize everyone is gonna spot and acquisition what I knowledgeable connected that first read. I don’t mean that successful a egotistical aliases cocky way, I conscionable mean, rather honestly, arsenic personification who studies lit and awesome American drama, each nan pieces were there. We conscionable had to get nan communicative retired there.
DEADLINE: Bess, is it excessively overmuch of a pat connected your ain backmost to reply that question?
WOHL: No. I was conscionable reflecting, first of all, Whitney, convey you for saying each of that, that’s really beautiful. And I deliberation there’s different layers to really I consciousness erstwhile I put a portion of activity retired into nan world. There’s portion of me, erstwhile I’m writing, that has to instrumentality myself into reasoning that nary 1 is ever gonna spot this, and we will ne'er do it astatine all, aliases I couldn’t return nan risks that I return connected nan page. You know, for example, pinch nan nude segment astatine nan opening of Act 2, if I had started down a way of, like, what are we asking actors to do here? And really are we gonna do it? I deliberation it would person blocked me. I had to benignant of create an imaginative bubble wherever location was full state and nary 1 was ever gonna cognize astir it isolated from for myself.
But arsenic nan play met nan world, I deliberation location was a small kernel wrong of maine that felt that location was thing very typical successful my collaboration pinch Whitney, successful nan communicative we were telling, successful nan actors we had cast, and that maine emotion that it was incredibly typical didn’t needfully mean that nan world would meet it pinch that reception astatine all. I mean, it’s decidedly happened to maine earlier that I deliberation something’s incredibly special, and nary 1 other seems to work together pinch me. So I’m conscionable truthful still amazed and grateful that nan play was seen and received successful this way, and it’s been beyond what I ever could person imagined.
DEADLINE: I do want to get into immoderate of nan things you some person coming up. Liberation is going to beryllium successful London, and connected nan road. I’m wondering really progressive will nan 2 of you beryllium successful each of that?
White: Very involved, sir! Come on, this is our babe we’ve made, sir, we’re not conscionable gonna nonstop it disconnected to assemblage without packing lunch, you know? We’re going to statesman a casting process together, and our type of nan show, because it’s going to beryllium going retired successful nan world arsenic it should, but our type of nan accumulation will spell to Berkeley Rep, and past nan Geffen Theater, and a fewer much will beryllium announced soon. I don’t want to spoil it. And we’re gonna rehearse for a mates weeks successful New York, and past we’re gonna nonstop it out. We really attraction astir audiences seeing awesome theatre crossed nan country. Neither of america are, like, coastal snobs successful this way. Like I said, I’m from Illinois, and I want everyone to acquisition nan activity for illustration it’s opening nighttime connected Broadway. I deliberation everyone crossed nan state deserves that, truthful we’re gonna beryllium very involved, and also, we’re going to return it to London. It’s conscionable incredibly exciting.
WOHL: And I’m really willing to spot this play is simply a speech pinch nan audiences. It’s besides specified a speech pinch nan moment, right? I could ne'er person anticipated erstwhile I wrote it really unfortunately, successful galore ways, applicable this play would be. I didn’t cognize we would beryllium surviving done specified a difficult and achy infinitesimal for truthful galore people, and women successful particular, truthful I’m really funny to spot really does this play unrecorded otherwise successful California, successful nan Midwest, successful different parts of nan Northeast? You know, I deliberation nan speech will proceed to germinate arsenic events successful our state evolve, and arsenic we benignant of deed different areas of nan country. I deliberation that’s gonna beryllium really, really fascinating.
DEADLINE: Whitney show america astir nan different projects you person cooking correct now, astatine slightest 2 aliases 3 awesome things. The Whoopi Chronicles, Imitation of Life…
White: The point I want to talk astir is Schoolgirls; Or, The African Mean Girls Play coming to Broadway [performances statesman September 8 astatine nan Samuel J. Friedman Theatre] and I bring that up not because I don’t emotion each of my different children equally, but I deliberation nan done statement from Jocelyn Bioh to Bess Wohl and backmost and distant is, like, very adjacent to maine and my heart, to beryllium honest. They’re some playwrights that I emotion very much. In fact, we’re going to an arena coming that Jocelyn is moderating for america astatine nan Drama Bookshop, and I’m gonna effort not to outcry done nan full thing. I conscionable bring up Schoolgirls because that’s a Broadway revival, and we request to beryllium reviving much female activity connected Broadway. I can’t hold for Bess to revive her ain activity connected Broadway. I deliberation that reviving plays codifies a play successful nan American conscience forever, for nan remainder of our lifetime. Every clip you spot Death of a Salesman or whatever, that intends that it’s buying that different life of study, and I deliberation Bess’ plays and Jocelyn’s plays merit that, request that. And truthful Schoolgirls is connected my mind today, because it’s different measurement towards a female sound being pinch america forever.
WOHL: I’m truthful excited to spot Schoolgirls. And I americium excited to get backmost to writing. To beryllium honest, I person a fewer projects that are successful different stages of readiness. I person immoderate readings coming up of caller work. It’s funny because I was listening to personification talk precocious astir penning a play, and she was saying that, like, you get to nan apical of nan upland pinch 1 piece, and past it’s not for illustration you commencement your adjacent climb up from there. No, you spell backmost to nan bottommost of nan mountain. Lisa Kron was talking astir this, to springiness her credit. So I’m going backmost to nan bottommost of nan mountain. And I’m excited.
