1 month ago
“I’ve been wondering: who is nan top footballer ne'er to make an quality successful England?” muses Cameron Turner. “Did immoderate of nan game’s greats spell their full profession without visiting nan location of football? I deliberation nan champion stake mightiness beryllium a South American from nan 1970s-1990s, though Brazil and Argentina often played friendlies astatine Wembley.”
This mobility is difficult to reply categorically, chiefly because nan net does not yet supply section and verse connected each shot lucifer played by superstars of nan black-and-white era. But it’s besides acold excessively absorbing to time off connected nan cutting-room floor, truthful we’ve fixed it a spell pinch nan caveat that nan answers are only 99% correct.
We checked pinch Cameron and those who played friendlies successful England are ineligible. This rules out, among others, Marco van Basten, who ne'er played a competitory crippled but did look for Milan astatine Old Trafford successful 1988 and astatine Wembley successful nan Makita Tournament of nan aforesaid year.
It’s nary astonishment that nan mostly of nan answers travel from: a) nan distant past and b) extracurricular Europe. “My ballot goes to Brazil’s first world superstar footballer, Arthur Friedenrich,” writes Alex Banks. “He starred successful Brazil’s nationalist team’s first ever lucifer successful 1914 – against Exeter City, weirdly capable – but it was held successful Brazil. Only erstwhile did he sojourn Europe: successful 1925 erstwhile his nine Paulistano toured France, Switzerland and Portugal. The French property were truthful impressed by him that they called him nan King of Football. Paulistano disbanded successful 1929, truthful he and his teammates formed São Paulo de Floresta, amended known coming arsenic nan mighty São Paulo FC.”
Knowledge fable Dirk Maas nominates Clodoaldo, nan hip-swinging midfielder who won nan World Cup pinch Brazil successful 1970. Clodoaldo was portion of nan Santos squad that played against Fulham and Plymouth during a European circuit successful 1973, but it looks for illustration he didn’t look successful either of those games.
Dirk has besides been done nan Fifa 100 and each Ballon d’Or victor and thinks these players are each eligible:
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Just Fontaine (France, 1953-60)
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Roger Milla (Cameroon 1973-94)
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Hugo Sánchez (Mexico, 1977-98)
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Romerito (Paraguay, 1979-90)
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Abedi Pele (Ghana, 1982-98)
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Mia Hamm (USA, 1985-2000)
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Michelle Akers (USA, 1987-2004)
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Hong Myung-bo (South Korea, 1990-2002)
Milla was owed to play for Cameroon successful a friends astatine Wembley successful 1991 but pulled retired erstwhile nan FA declined to salary him a one-off lucifer fee, reportedly £30,000. “Milla was listed among nan original substitutes,” wrote David Lacey successful nan Guardian, “but spent nan crippled connected nan chair successful mufti.”
We’d besides for illustration to nominate Obdulio Varela, the awesome skipper of Uruguay’s 1950 World Cup winners, but we’re judge location are different greats we’ve missed. If you person immoderate nominations, nonstop them to [email protected] and we’ll effort to put together a afloat XI.
Four keepers successful 1 day
“Chris Pike, Gareth Bale’s uncle, scored a hat-trick against 3 different goalkeepers – John Keeley, Roy McDonough, and Nathan Munson – successful a lucifer for Hereford against Colchester United connected 16 October 1993. Anyone for immoderate more?” asks Rob Davies.
The Knowledge is simply a kid of nan 1980s, truthful our watercourse of consciousness instantly diverts to Alvin Martin’s celebrated hat-trick against Newcastle successful 1985-86. It was improbable capable for Martin, a protect stalwart astatine West Ham, to people a hat-trick, ne'er mind against 3 different goalkeepers. West Ham, who were coming to nan extremity of their greatest-ever convention campaign, pummelled Newcastle 8-1. Martin scored his goals past Martin Thomas, an existent goalkeeper, and 2 outfield players: Chris Hedworth and Peter Beardsley. You tin publication each astir it successful Simon Burnton’s fantabulous Forgotten Story.
While we’re connected nan taxable of aggregate keepers, Conrad Teixeira wrote successful pinch a tangential mobility and an different communicative from nan Scottish Third Division:
double quotation markOn 10 May 2003, East Stirlingshire’s keeper Chris Todd was injured aft 7 minutes successful a lucifer against Albion Rovers. The sub goalkeeper Scott Findlay, was sent disconnected for fouling an Albion subordinate 40 yards from extremity – past his replacement, left-back Graham McLaren, was besides sent disconnected aft conceding a penalty. A 2nd outfield player, Kevin McCann, went successful extremity and saved nan penalty. Are location immoderate different instances of 4 goalkeepers playing successful extremity successful nan aforesaid match? Has immoderate lucifer ever featured 5 goalkeepers aliases 3 outfield players successful goal?
Can you help? If so, drop america a line.
Continental drift
“Which nine has nan highest ratio of Champions League aliases European Cup titles compared to convention titles?” asks David Sauter. “And which teams person won a awesome European trophy without ever winning their home league?”
Thanks to nan tens of you who answered this question, each of you utilizing nan words ‘Nottingham’ and ‘Forest’. They person a 2:1 ratio of European Cups to home titles aft Brian Clough spent 1977-80 stepping connected water; that puts them oceans up of nan adjacent best, Real Madrid. The Spanish broadside person 15 European Cups and 36 La Liga titles, a ratio of 0.42. Thanks to Robbie Dale for sending successful a database of nan clubs pinch nan highest ratio successful men’s football:
2.00 Nottingham Forest (2:1)
0.42 Real Madrid (15:36)
0.37 Milan (7:19)
0.33 Chelsea (2:6)
0.30 Liverpool (6:20)
As for nan 2nd portion of David’s question, 5 teams person won a European title but not their home league:
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Real Zaragoza Inter-Cities Fairs Cup 1963-64; Cup Winners’ Cup 1994-95
Highest convention position: 2nd successful 1974-75 -
West Ham United Cup Winners’ Cup 1964-65; Conference League 2022-23
Highest convention position: 3rd successful 1985-86 -
Parma Cup Winners’ Cup 1992-93; Uefa Cup 1994-95, 1998-99
Highest convention position: 2nd successful 1996-97 -
Villarreal Europa League 2020-21
Highest convention position: 2nd successful 2007-08 -
Atalanta Europa League 2023-24
Highest convention position: 3rd connected respective occasions
Dewi Howells adds that Leeds United (Fairs Cup 1967-68), Bayer Leverkusen (Uefa Cup 1987-88) and Sampdoria (Cup Winners’ Cup 1989-90) each won European competitions earlier winning their first convention title.
The Women’s Champions League is yet to beryllium won by a nine without a home convention title, but Duisburg offer nan champion ratio – nan German broadside won nan Uefa’s Women Cup (as it was past known) successful 2009, having won their only Bundesliga crown successful 2000. Die Löwinnen (yes, nan Lionesses) became portion of men’s nine MSV Duisburg successful 2014 and presently play successful Germany’s location leagues.
1.00 Duisburg (1:1)
0.57 FFC/Eintracht Frankfurt (4:7)
0.44 Lyon (8:18)
0.33 Turbine Potsdam (2:6)
0.30 Barcelona (3:10)
Knowledge archive
“Has location ever been nan Saturday nighttime people announcer’s all-time dream result: East Fife 4, Forfar 5? There’s AU$20 riding connected it,” wrote Hugh McGinley successful 2000.
Nearly but not quite. The Fifers visited Station Park during nan 1963-4 run successful nan aged Scottish Second Division and scored four. Sadly, their hosts still won, nan last people being … Forfar 5, East Fife 4.
Can you help?
“I conscionable sewage backmost from watching Luton Town triumph nan Football League Trophy,” chirps AJ. “This was aft they were knocked retired by Swindon successful nan past 16, only to beryllium reinstated because Swindon fielded 2 ineligible players. Have immoderate different teams won a cup title aft being reinstated?” [NB: earlier you each type ‘DENMARK 92’, we’ve covered teams who won competitions for which they didn’t primitively qualify.]
“Tomas Soucek precocious scored successful 3 punishment shootouts for nine and state successful nan abstraction of 11 days. Has anyone scored successful truthful galore shootouts successful specified a short timespan?” asks Brendan O’Mahony.
“Three erstwhile Everton managers will beryllium successful complaint of teams astatine nan World Cup: Carlo Ancelotti (Brazil), Roberto Martínez (Portugal) and Ronald Koeman (Netherlands). Is this is simply a record?” asks Mike Hulse.
“The Italian nine Como, who are 5th successful Serie A, person an almost wholly non-Italian squad. There person been only 2 substitute appearances by an Italian subordinate – defender Edoardo Goldaniga – successful nan convention this season. Has a nine ever gone done an full convention play without a azygous home subordinate making an appearance?” wonders Andy Brook.
“QPR precocious scored six goals against Pompey pinch 3 players scoring a double each,” originates Dan Trelfer. “This threw up a fewer questions:
1) What’s nan astir number of goals a squad has scored successful a crippled without a subordinate scoring a hat-trick?
2) What’s nan astir number of goals a squad has scored without anyone scoring much than 1 goal?
3) Has a squad ever scored 8 pinch 4 players each scoring twice? Or 10 pinch 5 doubles?”
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