What the Cavs’ win over the Pacers revealed about leadership and bad habits: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this section of nan Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor break down nan Cavs’ constrictive 120–116 triumph complete a severely depleted Indiana Pacers squad — and why it raised much concerns than confidence.

• ‘Definition of sneaky athlete’: Craig Porter Jr. joins elite Cavs institution pinch multifaceted effect
• Darius Garland leads Cavs to 120-116 comeback complete floundering Pacers
• Cavs supply wounded update connected Max Strus

Takeaways:

The Cavaliers Have a “Bad Habit” of Relying connected Comebacks and Talent

Despite securing a 120-116 win, nan Cavaliers’ capacity against a severely depleted Indiana Pacers squad was categorized arsenic “another bad performance.” The squad trailed for 36 of nan 48 minutes and relied connected a precocious surge to win. While nan Cavs are statistically 1 of nan NBA’s champion fourth-quarter teams by nett rating, cardinal players for illustration Darius Garland admit this is not a affirmative trend, arsenic they shouldn’t consistently beryllium successful positions wherever they request a miraculous comeback. The speakers pass that this shape of “playing pinch fire” and believing they tin simply “flip a switch” creates a mendacious consciousness of information that is unsustainable and will not beryllium effective against much talented playoff-caliber opponents.

The Team’s Talent Gap Has Shrunk, and Key Players Are Underperforming

A captious constituent made is that nan Cavaliers tin nary longer trust connected their talent unsocial to overwhelm opponents, arsenic their talent advantage is not what it was past season. Key players who performed astatine an elite level past twelvemonth person not consistently reached that aforesaid form; nan transcript notes that Evan Mobley is not playing for illustration an All-NBA subordinate and Darius Garland has only shown his All-Star shape successful spurts. The squad lacks a Sixth Man of nan Year campaigner and does not person nan aforesaid prima extent arsenic nan erstwhile year. This reality intends nan Cavs must adopt nan mindset of a less-talented team, focusing connected fundamentals, accordant 48-minute effort, and attraction to item alternatively than assuming their talent will transportation them to victory.

A Lack of Forceful Locker Room Leadership Is a Major Concern

The podcast raises a important interest astir a activity void wrong nan team, specifically missing nan type of blunt, accountability-driven beingness provided by erstwhile players George Niang and Caris LeVert. It’s based on nan squad needs an unfiltered beingness successful nan locker room who is consenting to telephone retired teammates, a domiciled that doesn’t fresh nan earthy personalities of stars for illustration Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, aliases Jarrett Allen. While Max Strus has nan vocal willingness to capable this role, his power is constricted by his inability to play owed to injury. The chat goes arsenic acold arsenic to propose nan Cavaliers’ beforehand agency should see trading for a subordinate pinch this circumstantial characteristic floor plan to thief correct issues pinch chemistry and on-court accountability.

Uncertainty Surrounds nan Return and Impact of Max Strus

An wounded update connected Max Strus revealed that while his information was positive, he requires much clip and will beryllium re-evaluated wrong nan adjacent 4 weeks, pushing his imaginable return further into nan season. This creates important uncertainty astir what type of Strus nan squad will get back. Having missed training camp, preseason, and a important information of nan regular play pinch a difficult ft injury, there’s interest he whitethorn not beryllium nan aforesaid high-energy, high-impact subordinate he was successful nan past. The speakers mobility really overmuch a “lesser version” of Strus tin genuinely elevate nan team, tempering expectations that his return will beryllium nan definitive solution to their ongoing struggles.

Craig Porter Jr. Has Emerged arsenic a Key Role Player

In nan midst of nan team’s struggles and injuries, Craig Porter Jr. has been a important agleam spot, carving retired a important domiciled pinch his impactful play. In nan triumph against nan Pacers, he astir recorded a triple-double and was connected nan level successful crunch time, providing basal playmaking, rebounding, and defense. His capacity has earned nan spot of teammates and nan coaching staff, pinch Darius Garland noting Porter’s expertise to initiate nan discourtesy takes unit disconnected of him. However, a lingering interest is that caput coach Kenny Atkinson has, astatine times, needed to beryllium implored by his assistants to put Porter successful nan game, raising questions astir whether his captious domiciled will diminish erstwhile nan roster returns to afloat health.

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Transcript

NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could incorporate misspellings and errors.

Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m backmost pinch different section of nan Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining maine Today, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com Cavs hit reporter. And we’re coming to you guys aft The Cavs latest win, 120-116 complete nan Indiana Pacers. And Chris, this is an Indiana Pacers squad that does not bespeak nan 1 that bounced nan Cleveland Cavaliers from nan Eastern Conference semifinals past play successful 5 games. This is simply a debilitated Indiana Pacers team. It mightiness beryllium easier for maine to sanction nan players who aren’t connected nan Pacers squad than who were disposable tonight. They did not person Obi Toppin. They did not evidently person Tyrese Haliburton. They didn’t person Benedict Matheran either. So they were led by Pascal Siakam, Aaron Neesmith and Andrew Nemhard. But Chris, this crippled for maine continues this rumor that nan Cavs person been having each play long. The inability to play 48 minutes, relying excessively heavy connected talent alternatively than effort. And we cognize that that playoff teams cannot play for illustration that, cannot trust connected talent alone. Effort, intensity, energy, each of these things are required to person occurrence successful nan playoff games. Yes, nan Cavs were without Donovan Mitchell. They didn’t person Max Drus again. Of course, we’ll get into that business a small spot later. And they again did not person Larry Nance Jr. But Chris, this was again a six triumph Indiana Pacers squad who were successful nan crippled and starring for 36 minutes of this 48 infinitesimal contest. What did you return distant from this one?

Chris Fedor: This is different bad capacity by nan Cavs. Overall, they’re uncovering ways to triumph these games late. They’ve benignant of go synonymous pinch these 4th fourth comebacks. A batch of nan guys successful nan locker room talked astir it aft nan game, but I asked Darius for illustration if this is in, if this is moreover a bully thing. And he said he didn’t deliberation it was. He said connected 1 hand, you know, we’re learning really to triumph these games successful nan 4th quarter. We’re learning really to woody pinch adversity. We’re learning what to do and what not to do successful 4th fourth situations. But he conscionable doesn’t want it to person to proceed to travel down to this. I mean, nan San Antonio game, nan Memphis game, location was a Chicago crippled wherever they had to rally successful nan fourth. They tried to rally against Detroit nan different nighttime and they couldn’t complete that comeback. So they are nan 4th champion 4th fourth squad successful nan NBA successful position of nett standing down nan Celtics, Timberwolves and Pistons. But I conscionable don’t deliberation they want to proceed to get themselves successful these situations wherever they person to do that. Look, this should person been easier for nan gaps. We understand that for a mostly of this play things haven’t been easy for this team. We understand each of nan things that they’re still moving done and nan absences that they’re dealing pinch and nan ever changing starting lineup, nan ever changing rotation, who Kenny tin trust connected coming disconnected nan bench, that changes almost nightly. So, yeah, they’re still searching for answers successful a multitude of ways, but Indiana is nan worst squad successful nan NBA and nan Cavs led for 9 full minutes and six of those came successful nan 4th fourth erstwhile they yet took nan lead, basically. So for nan first 3 quarters against an undermanned and unspeakable Indiana squad that is astir apt going to person much ping pong balls than anybody and group a franchise grounds for futility coming pinch 13 losses successful a row. They’ve ne'er done that earlier before tonight. So that’s what nan Cavs were up against. Like Micah Potter came disconnected nan street. Men are kid, by nan way. Came disconnected nan thoroughfare and had to play large minutes for nan Pacers because of everything that they’re missing. It shouldn’t person been this hard. Even without Donovan Mitchell, moreover pinch Dean Wade leaving nan crippled and not being capable to play successful nan 2nd half, moreover pinch Max Stru still not being capable to debut for illustration this should person been a batch easier for nan Cavs. They should person been capable to enforce their will. They should person been capable to show just, conscionable really overmatched Indiana was coming into nan game. And they conscionable didn’t do that until it sewage to nan 4th fourth and until they felt each of that pressure, until they looked up astatine nan scoreboard and said, ohio my God, we sewage to move it connected here. It’s just, it is simply a bad wont of theirs, this thought that they consciousness they tin flip a move successful nan 4th fourth aliases they tin conscionable crank up nan protect strength successful nan 4th quarter. It’s thing that they’re going to person to break as, arsenic nan play continues to spell on.

Ethan Sands: And Chris, we’ve talked astir it from past year, right? Darius Garland was 1 of nan champion clutch players successful nan NBA past season. Obviously he hasn’t been nan aforesaid for a mostly of nan play based connected nan disconnected play toed room and still trying to travel backmost from that. But nan Cavs squad arsenic a whole, sure, they mightiness person a bully nett standing successful 4th quarters. But successful clutch moments, according to NBA.com clutch data, they played successful 21 contests that person been deemed clutch performances. They’re 8 and 13 successful those. They person a triumph percent of 38.1%. That’s not going to get it done successful particularly erstwhile we talk astir successful nan playoffs. So sure, we tin talk astir nan affirmative of Darius Garland looking much for illustration his aged self, having 29 points, evidently having a awesome 4th fourth erstwhile he scored 14 of those 29 points successful that play alone. But there’s still much that nan Cavs need, and you mentioned it there, Chris, being capable to move it connected successful nan 4th quarter. It can’t beryllium nan denotation of really this Cavs squad thinks nan play is going to go. It can’t beryllium foreshadowing of really nan Cavs say, oh, we’re going to beryllium healthy, we’re going to beryllium capable to flip a switch. This Cavs squad is highly talented. We cognize that nan roster is built wherever they tin lucifer up pinch anybody erstwhile they’re healthy. But if they don’t person nan small things down packed, if they don’t person nan power and nan strength that we proceed to talk astir connected this podcast, past location are still going to beryllium questions. And 1 of nan players that we’ve talked astir connected this podcast that stepped up again coming and has since getting much opportunity is Craig Porter Jr. And Craig Porter Jr. Tonight became nan 4th subordinate successful Cavs history, first disconnected nan chair to decorativeness pinch astatine slightest 8 points, 9 rebounds, 9 assists, 3 blocks and 2 steals, going on pinch LeBron James, Larry Nash Jr. And Brad Dougherty. He is conscionable nan 2nd subordinate pinch those numbers disconnected nan chair successful NBA history, going on pinch Baron, Davis and Chris. We cognize and we’ve mentioned this advertisement nauseum connected this podcast. Craig Porter Jr. Is overmuch shorter than each of these different players. He’s 6′1-6′2 connected a bully time and he’s still making an effect and it’s awesome to spot him doing this. But again, this is simply a mobility of whether aliases not nan Cavs are going to beryllium sustaining this. And particularly erstwhile we talk astir this squad getting backmost healthy, whether aliases not Craig Porter Jr. Isn’t going to automatically autumn backmost down nan rotation and whether aliases not his effect is going to beryllium mislaid successful those conversations.

Chris Fedor: So I want to spell backmost earlier we get into Craig, I want to spell backmost to thing that you said astir nan Cavs being talented. Yes, they are. But different teams astir nan NBA are talented excessively and for illustration their talent spread is not what it was Last year. It’s conscionable not. Evan Mobley is not playing for illustration a 2nd squad each NBA player. He’s not playing for illustration personification who is worthy of each prima consideration. He did past year. He was awesome past year. He deserved nan first clip each prima appearance. He deserved to beryllium 2nd squad each NBA. He deserved to beryllium connected nan MVP periphery. But he hasn’t been for illustration that this year. And Darius Garland, he played for illustration an each Star past year. He was awesome past year. He’s not playing for illustration that this year. He’s starting to move nan corner. He was very bully successful nan 4th quarter. That was nan DG of old, arsenic Kenny Atkinson said. That was a changeable making display. The grade of trouble connected immoderate of those shots, very, very high. And he made it look easy and he was getting to his spots and he was playing nether control. And each of those things that that you saw from Darius past twelvemonth erstwhile he did make nan each prima squad for nan 2nd clip successful his career. That showed up again successful nan 4th quarter. That has shown up successful spurts, but not consistently. They don’t person a finalist for six man of nan twelvemonth connected this roster either nan measurement that they did pinch Ty Jerome past year. The Cavs were nan only squad successful nan NBA pinch 3 each Stars past year. The Cavs had aggregate guys connected nan each NBA squad and they had a finalist for six man of nan year. That’s not this team. They cannot. Based connected who they are and nan measurement that this roster is made up, they can’t conscionable overwhelm these morganatic contenders pinch their talent. They can’t. So yeah, they’re talented. And yeah, they look to deliberation that their talent will beryllium capable to triumph them a bunch of games and possibly moreover return complete successful 4th quarters. But conjecture what? Detroit’s talented to. Boston’s talented too. New York is talented too. Same point pinch Philadelphia. Switch it complete to nan Western Conference. Are nan Cavs importantly much talented than San Antonio? Are nan Cavs importantly much talented than nan Denver Nuggets aliases nan Minnesota Timberwolves aliases nan Houston Rockets? So for illustration this talent spread that group proceed to allude to, it’s conscionable not there. It’s not location to nan aforesaid level that it was past year. So they person to study that we’re not that team, that we do person to do these small things, that it is much astir attraction to detail, it is much astir basal closeouts. Like each these small things, it is astir playing difficult for 48 minutes. All these small things that these not arsenic talented teams look to person to do to Try and adjacent that talent gap. The Cavs person to commencement reasoning for illustration that because they’re conscionable not arsenic talented arsenic they deliberation they are. They’re not. The different point that I deliberation was notable from tonight, Kenny only played nine. That was connected a nighttime that Donovan Mitchell didn’t moreover play. He shortened his rotation. And it was connected a nighttime that Dean Wade couldn’t play successful nan 2nd half. He shortened his rotation, played 8 successful nan 2nd half, didn’t moreover play 9 successful nan 2nd half. So it is clear that arsenic nan play has progressed, nan number of players that Kenny Atkinson implicitly trusts has shrunk. And connected a nighttime that nan Cavs were shorthanded, he didn’t moreover spell to Lonzo because he didn’t consciousness for illustration he could, because he didn’t consciousness for illustration this was a matchup for Lonzo. And again, we’ve talked astir it. There are going to beryllium immoderate wherever they request his size, wherever they request his versatility, wherever they request his peskiness connected nan protect extremity of nan floor. But arsenic agelong arsenic Craig Porter Jr. Plays for illustration this, he almost had a triple double. He was retired location successful precocious crippled crunch clip situation. Kenny took DeAndre disconnected nan tribunal because his assistants were imploring him to put Craig Porter Jr. Back successful nan game. And Craig delivered. He took advantage of that opportunity. And if he continues to do that complete and complete and complete again, it doesn’t matter nan situation. Kenny can’t spell distant from him. He’s conscionable been excessively impactful. He’s been excessively meaningful to their occurrence offensively and defensively. And Darius Garland was talking astir it aft nan game. He was like, hey, precocious successful nan 4th quarter, it didn’t person to each beryllium me. On a nighttime that Donovan wasn’t there, it didn’t person to each beryllium me. I didn’t person to bring nan shot up nan level complete and complete and complete again. I didn’t person to initiate discourtesy aliases complete and complete and complete again because Craig was tin of doing that and because we, nan squad and nan coaching unit spot Craig successful that situation. And I thought it was meaningful that precocious successful nan crippled nan Cavs made nan substitution, they took retired DeAndre and they put Craig successful and Craig delivered. He made large play aft large play down nan stretch. And if he continues to do that, like, yes, location are going to beryllium much guys that seemingly get backmost healthy, but if he continues to do that, Kenny’s going to person nary prime but to proceed to thrust pinch Craig.

Ethan Sands: And Chris, I’m wholly successful statement pinch you. But nan only point that makes maine hesitant is this is not nan first clip wherever we’ve heard adjunct coaches having to implore Kenny Atkinson to make that alteration to beryllium backmost to Craig Porter Jr. And I’ve talked astir it this play earlier astir possibly Craig Porter Jr’s leash is shorter than astir players and judge he’s a backup backup constituent guard, but it feels for illustration Craig Porter Jr. As Darius Garland has mentioned, is not only bringing to nan protect extremity of nan level which Kenny Atkinson has raved and preached and needed from Craig Porter Jr. Especially constituent of onslaught defense guarding 94ft and each these things, but besides nan violative creation and 9 assists for Craig Porter Jr. But nan truth that Kenny Atkinson whitethorn not person put him backmost successful nan crippled if it wasn’t for nan adjunct coaches is worrisome to maine successful this situation. But Chris, I don’t needfully want to proceed to harp connected this crippled successful particular. Again it was against a six triumph Indiana Pacers. There’s different things that I want to discuss. First and foremost, I person to do this FanDuel sports what nan heck is going connected Dan? Like I’m astatine home, can’t watch nan crippled successful a crunch clip situation. Of people again it’s nan Indiana Pacers who won six games. So you deliberation you cognize what’s going to happen, but I’m listening to it connected nan radio. Now. I cognize this is simply a small spot abstract, but FanDuel sports successful December location were reports coming retired that they could shudder if Dazn doesn’t travel to statement connected immoderate deals. And I was sitting location for illustration is this nan extremity of FanDuel sports? Obviously unlikely, right? But, but I was conscionable for illustration truthful caught disconnected defender because I thought it mightiness person been my stream, my service, my my Internet, whatever. And past for illustration everybody connected societal media is posting nan aforesaid image connected screens and it was truthful jaw dropping to maine and Chris evidently astatine that constituent I’m tuning into everything that’s being tweeted and posted connected societal media and trying to conscionable support up because I cognize I person to do this show astatine immoderate constituent tonight. But besides conscionable for illustration nan value of streaming services that we’ve had and evidently going to Amazon Prime Video and each these different things and making things much difficult to watch. Like immoderate games you person to spell connected Peacock and past you person to upgrade your relationship from what it mightiness person been to get nan entree to nan game. Like it conscionable feels for illustration everything is truthful overmuch harder to watch these games and it doesn’t make nan viewing experience. As personification who had to watch. That was horrible. I wouldn’t wish that connected anybody who’s not successful an arena.

Chris Fedor: All nan players were talking astir it successful nan locker room station game, and we told Craig, like, hey, they mislaid nan provender erstwhile you blocked that shot. And he was like, oh. So I made Fanduel spell disconnected nan air. He was making a joke astir it. I deliberation it’s happened doubly now for Fanduel, and some times it was present successful Indiana. So nan Pacers mightiness person to get thing together erstwhile it comes to, you know, powerfulness service, that benignant of stuff. And it’s unfortunate because nan measurement that nan Cavs played down nan agelong is what you want to spot arsenic a fan. That was beautiful basketball, for nan astir part. I mean, they had that complete and back, which was bad. Evan Mobley caught nan ball, flipped it backmost to Sam Merrill. It was an complete and back, gave Indiana different shot. Indiana couldn’t inbound nan shot either. So, you know, but for nan astir part, like, down nan stretch, nan measurement that nan Cavs were sharing it offensively, nan measurement that they were defending astatine a precocious level, nan measurement that they were communicating, nan measurement that they were just, you know, successful power and. And dependable successful nan look of changeless Indiana pressure, nan changeable making successful nan 4th quarter, if you tuned successful in nan first 3 quarters, that’s what you were hoping to see, and you didn’t spot that down nan stretch. The Cavs, they took it to a different level, and it’s conscionable a matter of, okay, tin they do that now successful nan erstwhile 3 quarters? Cause Darius moreover said, he’s like, hey, like, retrieve past twelvemonth erstwhile we won games going away? We were capable to beryllium successful nan 4th quarter. We were capable to get young guys, meaningful minutes successful nan 4th quarter. We were capable to not person to exert ourselves physically and mentally precocious successful these games. And they’re just. I don’t know, it conscionable feels for illustration a squad that, for a mostly of nan game, continues to play pinch fire. And we each cognize what’s going to hap if you proceed to play pinch fire. Look, they tried. They tried nan different nighttime against Detroit, and they couldn’t decorativeness it because they were against a squad that was amended than them, and they had comparable talent, and they were successful clutch situations before, and they person shown that they tin thrive successful those clutch situations. You know, speech from nan San Antonio turnaround game, like, nary of these 4th fourth comebacks are things that you should beryllium beating your thorax about, right? Hey, we came backmost against nan Memphis Grizzlies. Hey, we came backmost against nan Denver Nuggets pinch a bunch of guys missing, you cognize what I mean? Like, it’s, I deliberation it’s giving them a mendacious consciousness of security, to beryllium honorable pinch you.

Ethan Sands: And it’s a communicative that we’ve seen moreover arsenic Darius Garland was for illustration trying to beryllium bully astir it. Last twelvemonth was nan aforesaid thing. Like we’ve been telling them they request to support nan state on, support nan travel going alternatively than letting teams backmost in. Last twelvemonth it was easier because they had 20, 30 constituent leagues. Now they’re coming from down nan full crippled and person to activity harder to get wherever they want to go. And I conscionable don’t deliberation you tin support playing for illustration this successful this level. And I don’t cognize what’s going to return because I cognize Kenny Atkinson wants to opportunity that location is nary hangover from a 64 triumph season. Well, seems for illustration nan players person this exuberant assurance which is basal successful nan NBA. Everybody has to beryllium a small spot delusional. It’s to a constituent wherever nan talent and nan play are not racking up. You evidently are 21 and 17. They should person much fire. And I thought Donovan Mitchell not being connected nan level mightiness person done it. And this isn’t for everybody. Sam Merrill played difficult for 48 minutes. Craig Porter Jr. Played difficult for 48 minutes. Naquan Tomlin played difficult for 48 minutes. That’s really nan Cavs request to play. That’s who nan Cavs request to play for illustration for nan full game. Usually Jaylon Tyson’s successful that conversation. He was sick. That doesn’t return distant from what he had going on. But I conscionable deliberation location needs to beryllium much from everybody alternatively than conscionable pouring, pointing astatine a fistful of players and being like, ohio yeah, those players continuously travel retired pinch this level of energy. I thought possibly Thomas Bryant would person been adjuvant successful this benignant of contest, particularly being backmost successful Indiana. Right. Penny Atkinson had talked astir Thomas Bryant having a 20 infinitesimal speech pinch nan squad successful a movie convention to break down what nan Indiana Pacers were doing and he didn’t get to show immoderate of it. So I don’t cognize what needs to happen, what alteration needs to beryllium made because it feels for illustration it’s internal.

Chris Fedor: I do deliberation it’s internal, Ethan. And nan different time nan Cavs had subordinate led movie convention wherever a batch of nan players said up astir what they were seeing connected film, what they liked, what they didn’t like, and usually nan coaches lead it. But Kenny said 90% of it was nan players. And nan astir Vocal feline during that was. Was Max Strus. And I’ve had a batch of conversations pinch a batch of group successful and astir nan NBA complete nan past 48 hours. Just, conscionable astir nan Cavs. Cause I ever for illustration to get different people’s position of, of nan Cavs. Something that I brought up. And I’ve been waiting to see, like, really this was going to germinate passim nan people of nan season. But Ethan, we’re almost halfway done nan play astatine this point, and I deliberation I’m fresh to yet opportunity it. The Cavs miss George Niang and they miss Caris Levert and they miss a level of leadership. Behind nan scenes they do. And I conscionable don’t deliberation they person nan right. I wonderment if they person nan correct guys from a activity standpoint. And Kenny has talked passim nan people of nan season, moreover successful nan struggles. I judge successful our leadership, we person awesome leadership. But do they person nan correct benignant of leaders? George was personification who was capable to interact pinch anybody, anybody. He had nary filter. He was consenting to telephone retired guys. And because of nan occurrence that he had connected his resume and really overmuch he played successful nan NBA and really he worked himself into nan subordinate that he was, he was consenting to speak up and usage his voice. And it mattered erstwhile he did. I wrote this astatine nan clip of nan waste and acquisition past year. I said chemistry is simply a delicate thing. Locker room dynamics are delicate. And I retrieve penning that nan Cavs mislaid thing erstwhile they sewage free of. Of George Niang and Caris Lavert. And you felt that nan time that nan waste and acquisition was made, nan overwhelming emotion was not excitement astir DeAndre. It wasn’t. It was sadness and benignant of, wherever do we spell from present aft losing 2 guys that we cognize mattered truthful overmuch down nan scenes successful nan locker room? And they miss it. Thomas Bryant is. Is not that he’s energetic, he’s personification who has won, gotten to nan NBA finals, but he’s for illustration this ray of sunshine that ever brings positivity. They request an a hole. That’s what they request successful nan locker room. And George was consenting astatine times to beryllium that. And Karras, Karras had a sound successful that locker room arsenic well. And I conscionable wonder. I’m not saying that they don’t person it. I conscionable wonderment if they do person capable of those kinds of guys. And evidently nan waste and acquisition deadline is correct astir nan corner. And president of hoops operations Kobe Altman is very willing successful locker room dynamics. He understands really overmuch they mean, you know, years ago, astir 7 years ago, successful nan past twelvemonth of LeBron James, he felt thing disconnected pinch his hoops squad and he overhauled nan full roster because nan measurement that he phrased it is that they were marching a slow decease and he conscionable didn’t person nan correct components successful that locker room and it wasn’t nan correct fresh connected nan court. And I cognize that nan Cavs don’t position it nan aforesaid way. I cognize nan Cavs judge successful this roster much than they did erstwhile they made that benignant of drastic move. But I do deliberation it’s thing that they person to proceed to look astatine because, you know, Max tin beryllium that guy, but it’s difficult to beryllium that feline erstwhile you can’t play. Max hasn’t played astatine all. And it was telling to maine that he was very, very vocal successful that movie convention nan different day. But he doesn’t play. He can’t play yet. So, yes, his sound matters. Yes, he tin beryllium an hold of nan coaching staff. Yes, he tin springiness tips and pointers during timeouts and worldly for illustration that. But it intends much coming from a feline who tin fly, who is playing, who is portion of nan each nighttime rotation. And I conscionable wonder, wherever is that going to travel from? That’s not Evan. That’s not who he is. Right? That’s not Jarrett. That’s not who he is. And it’s not moreover really who Donovan is. Donovan’s not that benignant of guy. He takes activity successful a different benignant of form. And him. And I moreover talked astir it astatine training camp, I was like, do you person to beryllium meaner? Do you person to effort and clasp these guys to a harsher standard? Like, is that a domiciled that you person to return connected because George isn’t there, because Tristan isn’t there, because Kerris isn’t there? You cognize what I mean? And Donovan, by nature, you cognize this, he’s optimistic. He looks astatine nan positives. He takes a large image approach. But erstwhile things aren’t going nan measurement that they astir apt should, this was a crippled wherever you would deliberation if. If George was connected this team, this was a crippled wherever I deliberation he would person spoken up successful nan locker room afterward and said, no, not bully enough. Indiana sucks. They’re six. And immoderate they are, they’ve sewage nan worst grounds successful nan NBA. And we trailed for astir 37 minutes. And it took a miraculous 4th fourth comeback wherever location was a full ton of superb changeable making. And location were these elite level protect plays, immoderate from Evans, immoderate from Craig, immoderate from these different guys. No, not bully enough. If we want to beryllium nan squad that we want to be. No. If we opportunity that we’re nan squad that we opportunity we are. No. And I conscionable wonder, you know, who has that benignant of characteristic successful this locker room. And erstwhile I was having these conversations pinch a mates of different group complete nan past 48 hours, they brought up locker room dynamics. They brought up, you know, holding group accountable. They, they, they brought up blunt, forceful leadership. And it conscionable made maine commencement to deliberation astir it a small bit. But it was thing that I had already been benignant of reasoning about, benignant of feeling. And I, I do judge that, you know, for each of nan questions astir to this point, moreover I deliberation nan Cavs should look to waste and acquisition for George Nang. I do. And, and I don’t think. Or a feline for illustration him. And I don’t deliberation it’s personification that, that is, you know, going to play 30 minutes a nighttime aliases thing on those lines. And I cognize each of his limitations, but for illustration personification for illustration that, that tin travel successful and benignant of for illustration ruffle feathers successful nan locker room, that guy, I deliberation they should look astatine perchance trading for. And it doesn’t person to specifically beryllium George. It doesn’t person to. But you cognize that he fits, you cognize that he would beryllium comfortable doing that. But, but personification for illustration that, they can’t get Dylan Brooks. Dylan Brooks is, according to Matt Ishbia, he’s untouchable. He’s not going anywhere. But that benignant of guy, I think, I deliberation that benignant of feline would thief this squad importantly down nan scenes.

Ethan Sands: Wow. So galore places to spell from here. Wow. Wow, wow. Okay, let’s talk astir who’s not here, because I consciousness for illustration that’s this jump disconnected constituent from nan George Niang thing. Players who person near aliases coaches who person near nan statement who could person filled that role, players that travel to mind. Tristan Thompson, I retrieve aft nan Golden State warriors triumph mightiness person moreover happened astatine halftime, he called retired nan full team. Right. I deliberation of JB Bickerstaff and really he held this squad accountable and they weren’t fresh for that level of accountability now, now they consciousness for illustration they request it. And then, Chris, you talk astir players that mightiness beryllium connected this squad already, who Kenny Atkinson is trying to get that activity retired of. And I deliberation Sam Merrill is simply a subordinate that mightiness not needfully beryllium an A hole, but holds himself successful nan squad to specified a precocious modular that he tin beryllium captious successful conversations to a constituent that his voice, particularly because he’s quiet and doesn’t opportunity a full batch and will joke, but isn’t needfully trying to opportunity thing mean will clasp much value. And Kenny Axon talked astir that a small spot today, I believe, astir Sam Merrill’s increasing leadership, increasing sound and wanting to propulsion that retired of him and gathering that for this group. And I deliberation it’s telling. Yeah, and I deliberation it’s telling because he, he has those conversations 35,000ft successful nan aerial watching movie pinch Donovan. And Donovan has been truthful astir Sam Arrow calling him retired on, hey, that was a bad shot. Hey, that’s not what you’re expected to do there. Do thing else. And if you’re capable to person conversations pinch nan prima player, nan franchise look and person these upfront conversations, I deliberation nan Cavs request his benignant of voice. The Cavs request that benignant of emphasis, particularly if he’s going to play really he’s been playing this season. I deliberation you person much weight to everything that you’re doing. And Max Struse, evidently nan Cavs person missed him. And Chris, we cognize coming nan Cavs came retired pinch an wounded update connected Max Strus, that he underwent information and imaging connected his near ft pursuing disconnected play surgery. And nan information and imaging was positive. But it did uncover that he needed much clip and he’s going to beryllium reevaluated wrong nan adjacent 4 weeks. So Chris, arsenic we’ve talked astir connected this podcast, we didn’t presume that he was going to beryllium backmost until nan earliest nan waste and acquisition deadline aliases by All Star Weekend. And it’s lining up for that to beryllium nan imaginable timeline for Max Drus. And sure, we don’t cognize really it’s really going to clip up. He has to get reevaluated wrong nan adjacent 4 weeks. And again, nan cryptic messaging from nan Cavs wrong that tin beryllium tomorrow, that tin beryllium adjacent week, that tin beryllium successful a month, who knows? But we’re going to find retired each together. And I deliberation nan Max Truth portion that you mentioned, him being nan astir vocal successful these meetings mightiness beryllium worrisome again, and I don’t cognize if I’ve utilized that connection excessively overmuch connected these podcasts, but, but for personification who’s not playing to beryllium like, hey, this is an area of issue, I can’t do anything, please reside this. I deliberation that’s something. And him knowing that he’s nan only 1 that’s going to telephone it retired aliases is consenting to do that is necessary. And evidently you mentioned Thomas Bryant. He’s mentioned that nan Indiana Pacers past year, who were 20 and 18 astatine nan 38 crippled people of nan season, didn’t person these accountability and Hard conversations until for illustration a period earlier nan playoffs. So he thinks nan Cavs are doing things amended successful that regard. But sometimes you request more. And Chris, I deliberation this Cavs squad successful galore aspects needs more.

Chris Fedor: Well, nan different mobility pinch Max present is that, okay, if he’s going to miss each this clip and he didn’t person training campy and he didn’t person preseason and he didn’t person this, this ramp up period, what type of Max are nan Cavs going to get? I deliberation it’s adjacent to wonderment astir that. We knew from nan very opening that this was a tricky injury. We knew from nan very opening that this was an wounded that guys that person had it and they undergone nan room person struggled. When it comes to coming back, either nan timeline changes, location are setbacks, aliases it’s conscionable nan measurement that they tin move. The measurement that they tin usability connected nan tribunal is simply a small spot different. Zion Williamson missed an full play because of this. Kevin Durant had an rumor pinch this. It’s hard. And Max is personification who is perpetually moving. Max is personification who is perpetually progressive successful nan action, whether it’s mounting screens, moving astir screens, chasing different guys disconnected of screens, rebounding, boxing out, switching onto bigger guys. Think astir each nan worldly astir Max and I wrote astir this. I deliberation it was astir a week and a half agone pinch a insignificant update connected him that he hadn’t moreover started practicing yet. And you know, he had been doing these 1 connected 1 workouts and he was going truthful hard, from what I perceive successful those workouts, that nan Cavs were like, no, stop, we gotta unopen you down for a small bit. We gotta prevention you from yourself because you’re conscionable overdoing it because he doesn’t cognize immoderate different way. That’s who he is. At his core. He is for illustration an overachiever, a effort difficult guy, personification who is ultra competitive. And so, you know, I deliberation portion of this, Ethan, is simply a batch of group were asking like, hey, we’re past nan 4 period people here, what’s going connected pinch Max? But erstwhile you sewage to that constituent and he wasn’t progressing and he wasn’t practicing and he wasn’t doing 2 connected 2 and 3 connected three, you’re like, ohio man, thing mightiness beryllium incorrect here. And it was.

Ethan Sands: Yeah. And I deliberation this squad is conscionable continuing to hunt and I mentioned this successful my, successful my matter to our immoderate tech subscribers astir conscionable getting him acclimated is going to beryllium difficult. Kenny Ackinson is talking astir uncovering rotations, uncovering lineups, uncovering combinations that activity Putting Max Drews into this equation is going to make things much difficult. It’s going to make things amended for nan squad depending connected what type Max Drew gets back. But arsenic Chris mentioned there, he has to person a ramp up process of immoderate sort. And to my knowledge, aliases based connected what Kenny Atkinson has said, they dream that nan extremity of nan regular play is going to beryllium that for REH and trying to get him fresh to beryllium perchance a playoff starter, depending connected who they person available. And again, wellness is simply a large point there. But that changes nan outlook connected nan full roster depending connected wherever Kenny Hagerson plugs and plays him into nan game. Because past you talk astir Sam Merrow coming disconnected nan bench, who Kenny is, talk astir wanting to usage him successful that capacity alternatively than arsenic a starter. DeAndre Hunter, right? Being a feline that comes disconnected nan bench, perchance a six man, Dean Wade past coming disconnected nan chair and this grows and grows and grows. And again gets backmost to nan speech of wherever Does Craig Porter Jr. Fall into this topic?

Chris Fedor: I mean, it besides gets backmost to nan constituent of they person truthful acold this play a lesser type of Evan Mobley. So acold this play they person a lesser type of Darius Garland. So acold this play they person a lesser type of DeAndre Hunter. So yeah, Max is going to help. Max brings things that they need. But if it’s a lesser type of Max Strus from successful nan past, what does that really do for this squad and really overmuch does that extremity nan scales? How overmuch does that really help? How overmuch does that put guys successful their due domiciled and make things make much consciousness from a extent floor plan perspective? Because I deliberation Kenny is yet admitting and I deliberation different group wrong nan statement are admitting. We don’t cognize if we’re going to get nan Max Strus that, that we’ve gotten successful nan past. Max was bully successful nan playoffs past year. Max was impactful successful nan playoffs past year. And erstwhile he’s been successful nan starting lineup, moreover past twelvemonth erstwhile he was successful nan starting lineup, his connected disconnected rating. The team’s connected disconnected rating. That type of Max Strus, if they were getting that type of Max Strus is different. You tin person different conversations. You tin look astatine that arsenic a imaginable addition, for illustration a waste and acquisition deadline addition, you cognize what I mean? But if, if you are already starting to deliberation we don’t cognize if we’re going to get that feline and much apt than not we’re not going to.

Ethan Sands: Get that guy, truthful what?

Chris Fedor: It’s not to diminish Max aliases his worth aliases thing for illustration that. But it’s conscionable him coming backmost from this peculiar wounded and trying to play done it. I conscionable don’t deliberation he’s going to beryllium capable to beryllium nan feline that he’s been for nan Cavs. And. And they’re going to request them to be.

Ethan Sands: Yeah. And that conscionable only leaves for much difficult conversations for Katie Akinson, for nan organization, for Max who wants to beryllium retired location and intelligibly being progressive successful these subordinate led movie sessions, wants to beryllium there, wants to thief and evidently we cognize he’s a Hooper, but Chris, nan past portion of this speech is nan playoffs and what we’re talking about. And nan Cavs request to get there, request to beryllium nan champion type of themselves entering. And nan Eastern Conference has conscionable been wild. I mean, nan Cavs presently beryllium arsenic nan sixth seed successful nan Eastern Conference pinch 21 wins and 17 losses and coming that’s only because nan Washington Wizards defeated nan Orlando Magic. I wasn’t expecting that. That wasn’t connected my bingo card. And past you talk astir simply really nan Cavs and nan Eastern Conference person shaped retired complete nan past mates of days. I mean, nan Boston Celtics are nan 2nd seed successful nan Eastern Conference successful a twelvemonth erstwhile astir group thought they were taking a spread year. Most group thought that they were going to beryllium playing for Lottery Bull. Right? Then you talk astir nan New York Knicks getting outplayed by nan Detroit Pistons, nan imaginable Eastern Conference beforehand runners getting held to 90 points successful their past matchup against nan Detroit Pistons, who not everybody had and astatine nan apical of nan Eastern Conference earlier nan play started. Then you look astatine nan Charlotte Hornets beating nan OKC Thunder nan different night. Like location are conscionable truthful galore things. And of people tonight’s crippled betwixt nan Cavs and nan Indiana Pacers, that is conscionable showing that nan 82 crippled play is simply a grind. And this is simply a Cavs squad that cannot return immoderate squad lightly, particularly pinch nan injuries that they’re managing, nan crippled style that they’re playing, nan effort level that they’re giving, and past besides conscionable nan talent level astir nan league. And Donovan Mitchell said it nan different time erstwhile they were placing nan Denver Nuggets. And I don’t cognize if he was trying to beryllium funny astir it aliases he was conscionable really being serious. But these teams that don’t person everybody equipped to play aliases disposable to play tin beryllium much vulnerable because you don’t cognize who immoderate of these players connected nan extremity of nan chair are going to play. Like, what they’re going to beryllium capable to do, really they’re going to beryllium capable to effect games. And that has wounded nan Cavs to this constituent successful nan play because they’ve gotten caught disconnected defender excessively galore times to count and there’s still galore games near to play and fig retired whether aliases not they tin alteration this information of their personality and really showcase effort for 48 minutes because I don’t cognize if they person to this constituent successful nan season.

Chris Fedor: Big triumph coming against Indiana. We tin officially opportunity that nan Cavs are a playoff team. They moved retired of nan play in. They are now sixth successful nan Eastern Conference. One of those locked successful playoff spots. Yeah, I mean, for illustration a batch of nan guys were saying aft nan crippled that nan only point that matters is that we recovered a way, we won nan game, and astatine nan extremity of nan time that’s what we had to do against a squad for illustration Indiana. But I deliberation astatine immoderate constituent they besides request to understand that nan really and nan why matter. And I do deliberation that they are taking immoderate of their issues a small spot much seriously. I do deliberation they are recognizing immoderate of their shortcomings and immoderate of their flaws and immoderate of their weaknesses, and that’s really, really important. But nan adjacent step, Ethan, is arsenic observers, we want to spot grounds of them recognizing that and making nan due changes to hole those things. And that’s nan adjacent measurement because I don’t deliberation they’ve gotten to that constituent yet. And I deliberation coming against Indiana was different illustration of that.

Ethan Sands: And pinch each that being said, because there’s only truthful overmuch to beryllium said astatine this constituent successful nan play aft a triumph against nan Indiana Basers. That’ll wrap up today’s section of nan Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But retrieve to go a Cavs insider and interact pinch Cross, Chris, maine and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Don’t deliberation we forgot astir your subtext questions for our adjacent hey Chris episode. That’ll travel up shortly, but if you still want to nonstop them in, nan only measurement to do truthful is signing up for a 14 time free proceedings aliases visiting cleveland.com Cavs and clicking connected nan bluish barroom astatine nan apical of nan page. If you don’t for illustration it, that’s fine. All you person to do is matter nan connection stop. It’s easy, but we tin show you that nan group who motion up instrumentality astir because this is nan champion measurement to get insider sum connected nan Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t conscionable our podcast, it’s your podcast. And nan only measurement to person your sound heard is done immoderate text. Y’ each beryllium safe. We out.