Reacting to the hard truth repeatedly exposed in the Cavs’ brewing rivalry with Detroit: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this section of nan Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor dive into nan reality that nan Cavs tin nary longer disregard erstwhile facing nan Detroit Pistons.

• Cavs re-examining lineups successful hopes of fixing untenable 2nd 4th woes
• Cavs can’t complete comeback, arsenic winning streak gets snapped by Detroit Pistons, 114-110
• Cavs won’t person 2 starters Sunday vs. Detroit Pistons

Takeaways:

The Cavs Face an Organizational Identity Crisis

The Cavaliers are facing an “organizational personality crisis,” aspiring to beryllium a tough, defense-first squad akin to nan Detroit Pistons but lacking nan unit to execute that style effectively. While nan Cavs’ players and coaching unit preach a strategy built connected grit, creating deflections, and physicality, they don’t person nan “bullies” aliases “burly, beingness dudes” connected nan roster to consistently enforce their will. This disconnect was evident successful their nonaccomplishment to Detroit, a squad that embodies nan very personality nan Cavs declare to want. The hosts reason that Cleveland is talking for illustration a squad that wants to play Detroit’s style but is fundamentally not built to do so, starring to inconsistent play and nan deficiency of a reliable squad instauration to thin on.

Second-Quarter Woes are a Critical Weakness

The Cavaliers’ second-quarter capacity has go a critical, season-long weakness, arsenic they rank arsenic nan worst squad successful nan NBA during that period, being outscored by astir 15 points per 100 possessions. This glaring rumor was perfectly encapsulated successful their caller crippled against nan Pistons, wherever a beardown first 4th was wholly erased erstwhile they were outscored 47-28 successful nan second. This 4th has consistently been nan turning constituent successful games and represents a important problem for nan team’s stability. The inability to support momentum aliases respond to opponents’ adjustments aft nan first 4th is simply a awesome facet contributing to their uneven play and existent struggles successful nan Eastern Conference standings.

Failing to Meet Their Own “Defense-First” Standard

While nan Cavaliers are not a disastrous protect team, they are failing to meet nan precocious modular group by their ain “defense-first” identity. The hosts contend that if a squad declares defense arsenic its backbone, being a middle-of-the-pack portion (ranked 12th) is insufficient for title aspirations. Giving up 47 points successful a azygous 4th to nan Pistons, moreover pinch cardinal players injured, highlights this inconsistency. Teams pinch a existent protect identity, for illustration Oklahoma City aliases Detroit, consistently show a level of toughness that makes discourtesy a “chore” for their opponents. For nan Cavs, this protect grit appears only successful flashes, and until it becomes their accordant calling card, their capacity will not align pinch their stated goals.

Bench Production Remains a Major Liability

The Cavaliers’ chair has go a important liability, ranking arsenic nan second-least productive successful nan full NBA. This rumor was starkly illustrated against nan Pistons, wherever nan Cavs’ reserves were outscored 51-28, pinch Pistons two-way subordinate Dennis Jenkins (25 points) astir matching nan full Cleveland unit’s output by himself. While injuries person forced chair players into starting roles, nan cardinal offseason additions intended to fortify nan 2nd portion person been mostly ineffective. Larry Nance Jr. struggled earlier his injury, and Lonzo Ball has been deemed “unplayable against high-level teams.” This deficiency of reliable extent has forced Kenny Atkinson to reexamine his full rotation to compensate for nan important drop-off successful production.

The Window for Experimentation is Closing

With nan squad presently eighth successful nan Eastern Conference standings, nan model for experimentation is quickly closing for nan Cavaliers. Kenny Atkinson is still actively searching for effective lineup combinations and rotations — a process made basal by injuries but 1 that has contributed to nan team’s inconsistent results. However, pinch a difficult upcoming schedule that includes matchups against Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Oklahoma City, nan squad has small room for error. The hosts accent that nan Cavaliers are approaching a captious agelong wherever nan attraction must displacement from tinkering and improvement to actively chasing wins to amended their playoff positioning earlier they autumn excessively acold down nan conference’s apical contenders.

Listen utilizing nan subordinate below:

You tin besides perceive utilizing your preferred podcast app. Subscription accusation is below.

Subscribe and perceive on Apple Podcasts aliases Spotify.

The video type of nan podcast is connected YouTube arsenic well.

Transcript

NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could incorporate misspellings and errors.

Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan says, and I’m backmost pinch different section of nan Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining maine Today, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com cav newsman and we’re coming to you guys aft The Cavs latest loss, 114-110 to nan Detroit Pistons. And Chris, we knew coming into tonight’s crippled that it was going to beryllium a beingness title that was going to beryllium wished connected who punched first and past besides who responded to that first punch. And Chris, nan first 4th was an denotation of conscionable that. 28 points for nan Cavs, 19 for nan Detroit Pistons and past nan 2nd quarter, 47 for nan Detroit Pistons and 28 for for nan Cleveland Cavaliers. And that was fundamentally nan communicative of nan crippled and has been for this season. Obviously we look backmost to past year’s and nan Cavs person struggled successful 3rd quarters. Now this twelvemonth successful 2nd quarters. What did you return distant from tonight’s crippled and really nan Cavs are looking?

Chris Fedor: Well, first off, Ethan, nan 2nd quarters are horrible and apologies to everybody listening if my sound starts to crack. I’m fighting this acold for nan past mates of days. Maybe I was excessively adjacent to Jared Allen, who knows? The 2nd quarters are horrible for nan Cavs. They’re nan worst squad successful nan NBA. In nan 2nd quarter, they’re being outscored by astir 15 points per 100 possessions. The only teams successful nan aforesaid stratosphere arsenic them are Indy, for illustration New Orleans, Sacramento, Washington, and I deliberation Milwaukee is nan different one. So 5 different unspeakable teams. That’s not nan institution that you want to beryllium in. But arsenic nan crippled was going connected against Detroit and arsenic I was listening to a batch of nan different players talk successful nan locker room pursuing today’s game, I conscionable had a large image thought and I don’t cognize what it intends necessarily, but nan Cavs proceed to say, hey, we’re a defense first team. We want to trust connected our defense, create deflections, create turnovers and get successful modulation arsenic nan crippled was going connected coming against Detroit, Detroit, by nan way, nan number 1 squad successful nan Eastern Conference. Detroit, by nan way, a squad that is very, very bully successful nan clutch passim nan people of this year. Detroit, by nan way, a squad that is simply a defense first team. You spot them play for illustration that, you consciousness that Kenny Atkinson talked astir them being handsy, them being physical, them opinionated up drivers, them being capable to switch, nan rebounding, each that benignant of stuff. So arsenic nan crippled is playing out, each I thought to myself, Ethan was nan Cavs want to beryllium who nan Pistons are now. They want to beryllium a amended type of that. They want to beryllium much explosive and move offensively. They want to beryllium capable to make much 3 pointers. But if you perceive to nan players, they’re talking for illustration a squad that wants to play for illustration Detroit, but they’re not. They’re not Detroit. They don’t person that level of personnel. And arsenic you’re watching nan game, and I cognize that nan Cavs were missing Jarrett, they were missing Dean. Two large losses. They were missing Max. Max is feisty. Max is competitive. But arsenic you’re watching nan crippled and you’re conscionable looking astatine nan unit quality betwixt nan 2 teams, nan Cavs can’t beryllium Detroit. They can’t, because they don’t person bullies, because they don’t person these burly, beingness dudes connected nan inside, because their interior players person a different makeup. So we’ve talked astir this a number of different times, Ethan, connected this podcast. I conscionable deliberation there’s an organizational personality crisis. I do. I deliberation nan Cavs want to beryllium a definite benignant of team, and I don’t deliberation they person nan unit to do that. Detroit tin beryllium Detroit. Detroit tin beryllium bullies. Detroit tin beryllium physical. Detroit tin beryllium handsy. Detroit tin make it rough. All nan things that J.B. bickerstaff instilled present successful Cleveland, each nan things that J.B. bICKERSTAFF wanted nan Cavs to beryllium 1 of nan years they made each these T shirts that said triumph nan scrap. It was astir nan small things. It was astir nan soiled things. It was astir nan physicality, nan toughness, nan ruggedness. We’re not going to get pushed around. We’re going to beryllium 1 of nan champion protect teams successful nan NBA. For each of our different shortcomings, we’re going to beryllium that we’re going to person an personality that we tin thin into. We’re going to person an personality that makes sense, that we tin trust on, that we play to. Even if it doesn’t ever lead to wins, we’re going to beryllium that. And you spot that pinch Detroit, correct Flip. On a Pistons game, you cognize precisely what you’re going to get. And it’s not ever going to lead to wins, not ever going to beryllium pretty. Probably not going to make a bunch of threes, though they did successful nan 2nd 4th against nan Cavs. And I just, like, kept watching nan game, saying to myself, if you perceive to nan Cavs, they’re talking astir trying to beryllium Detroit, trying to beryllium that style team. And it’s fascinating to maine fixed nan ties betwixt nan organizations, nan heavy ties betwixt nan organizations. But that’s each I kept reasoning arsenic I was watching nan crippled and past listening to Donovan Mitchell and listening to Sam Merrill and, and listening to Kenny Atkinson aft nan game. The Cavs opportunity defense first, defense first, create turnovers, get retired successful transition. That’s who Detroit is. That’s what they do. That’s really they’ve gotten to this constituent wherever they’re nan number 1 squad successful nan Eastern Conference. And I’m conscionable going to beryllium fascinated to spot arsenic this play progresses, arsenic much guys get healthy, arsenic guys descent backmost into nan roles that they astir apt should beryllium in, which is besides contributing to nan full 2nd 4th woe thing. I’m going to beryllium fascinated to spot if nan Cavs tin really get to that constituent wherever that does go their personality connected a accordant basis, because I person my doubts connected it.

Ethan Sands: We’ve benignant of danced astir this speech and I deliberation it’s astir clip we really put our ft connected it arsenic we want nan Cavs to do erstwhile they person leads to put their ft connected teams adjacent and support it location until thing changes. If and I’ve been asking aggregate opposing coaches passim nan play astir identity, astir unit affecting identity. As we know, wellness is simply a large point successful nan NBA. Health is what has been nan derivative of really nan Cavs person played to commencement season. They’ve talked astir Dean Wade and Jared Allen being retired tonight. Donovan Mitchell pointed to it astatine nan extremity of nan game. It was immense that they didn’t person them right. Max Strutz hasn’t been here. The gravity, nan explosiveness, nan toughness, that’s each true. But an identity, this is thing that you’re expected to beryllium capable to spell to moreover erstwhile you don’t person needfully nan players you want connected nan floor. It’s an personality of nan team. And nan Cavs person reiterated nan conception that they want to person a squad mindset, a squad thought process, a 1 way goal. And I deliberation this Cavs squad has not gotten to that constituent wherever they’re capable to do that depending connected nan unit that’s connected nan floor. And, and that’s why we’ve continuously had this speech astir identity. That’s constituent one, nan 2nd point. And I deliberation this mightiness ruffle feathers a small spot more. But nan Cavs were not fresh to beryllium who they want to be. Now erstwhile J.B. rstaff was connected this team, erstwhile J.D. rickerstaff was coaching this team, he was excessively reliable connected them astatine points and J.D. bakerstaff talked astir it coming successful his pregame property convention astir his process astir learning and taking distant from his past play successful Cleveland and implementing immoderate things, process oriented into nan Detroit Pistons. But he wanted to make clear and he and erstwhile Chris asked astir him being a fiery, competitory guy, he still made clear that erstwhile they’re betwixt nan lines, it’s competitive. This is who we are, this is who we’re going to be. But process is much astir really I negociate stars. How do we practice? Do we person to spell correct aft a crippled moreover though it’s a loss? Do we return a time off? Do we person a betterment day? Do we play shot alternatively of having an each retired practice? Those are things that J.D. bickerstaff has implemented pinch nan Detroit Pistons. Now he was not readily capable to erstwhile he was successful Cleveland and successful portion that was because he is personification known for building culture. The Detroit Pistons cognize their culture. The Cavs astatine that constituent were J. Bickerstaff, he was trying to get them to that level. He was trying to get them to nan strength level, nan effort level, nan necessity connected nan protect extremity erstwhile it comes to nan fundamentals for them to play to nan modular that they are now. Right. They person nan thought of who they want to beryllium defensively, offensively, mentally. And not to return thing distant from Kenny Atkinson because he has helped get them to this point. It’s a different coaching style is simply a different life instruction that everybody is taking pinch them. And possibly they didn’t needfully for illustration what J.D. bickerstaff was doing erstwhile he was here, but nan reality is nan Cavs arsenic a full needed to mature much to beryllium capable to person these kinds of conversations. And that was because this squad a mates of years agone was young. Now they’re older. Now they understand nan window. Now they understand nan statement implications that they person surrounding them. And moreover Jaylon Tyson successful his believe media readiness said we are successful a tight window. We are successful a mini model wherever we want to triumph a championship. So moreover a 2nd twelvemonth subordinate tin spot it. Someone who didn’t play nether J.B. bakerstaff. Right. So I deliberation this is thing that nan Cavs are going to person to travel to position pinch and that nan statement and nan instrumentality guidelines who is like, well, Jamie Biggerstaff wasn’t capable to do X’s and O’s successful nan playoffs. Yeah, that’s true. But if we’re talking astir building a squad that would person ferociously gone aft loose balls, rebounds aliases they would person known nan penalties of it that was that team. This squad feels for illustration they’re getting much leeway for things that they should.

Chris Fedor: And here’s nan thing, Ethan. You know, I don’t deliberation nan Cavs are a bad protect team, per se. Like, they aren’t nan Atlanta Hawks pinch Trae Young connected nan roster wherever they conscionable springiness up 130 connected a nightly basis. Basically. They’re not nan Washington Wizards, right? They’re not nan New Orleans Pelicans. But if you opportunity it’s going to beryllium your thing, if you opportunity it’s going to beryllium your backbone, if you opportunity it’s going to beryllium your identity, past we, nan collective, we, are going to clasp you to a overmuch higher modular astatine that extremity of nan floor. And giving up 47 points to nan Detroit Pistons successful nan 2nd 4th is conscionable not bully enough. Yes, I cognize Dean was missing and Jarrett was missing and Max was missing. That was portion of it. That helps explicate immoderate of it. And location were immoderate quarters wherever nan Cavs were amended defensively than others. And they’ve had flashes of being that elite level defense. They did it successful nan 4th fourth against immoderate was near of nan Nuggets. Right? They did successful nan first 4th coming against nan Pistons. Even though nan Pistons didn’t person Jalen Duran, Tobias Harris, Garris Lavert, they held nan Pistons to 21 points successful nan 3rd quarter. So, yeah, location are times wherever you look astatine nan Cavs, you’re like, each right, grimy, tough, physical, forcing turnovers, forcing teams into difficult shots, making it difficult for them to get into nan paint, but it’s conscionable not accordant enough. Oklahoma City does it consistently, right? The Detroit Pistons do it consistently. The Miami Heat, nan Houston Rockets, they each do it consistently. The Cavs are for illustration conscionable extracurricular nan apical 10, very adjacent to mediate of nan battalion defense. And that’s good if. If that’s not going to beryllium your thing, but they opportunity it’s their thing. They opportunity they want it to beryllium their thing, and that’s not bully enough. If that’s going to beryllium your point and if that’s who you want to be, if you opportunity that defense is your personality and you’re 12th successful defense, what does that get you? Are you competing for titles for illustration that? Are you competing for Eastern Conference crowns for illustration that? It’s conscionable difficult for maine to spot that. So, yeah, I mean, I deliberation it’s adjacent to clasp them to a higher modular defensively and say, look, if you’re going to preach defense first, if you are going to telephone that your identity, if you are going to beryllium adamant astir that being your identity, past 12th isn’t bully enough. Not if you want to triumph a championship. It’s conscionable not. And yeah, location are circumstances tied to it for sure, but nan Pistons opportunity they’re a defense first squad and they play to them. And you saw that today. You saw really reliable and beingness they were. You saw really grabby they were. You saw really they made it reliable for nan Cavs connected nan violative extremity of nan floor. It looked for illustration for nan Cavs for a mostly of that game, discourtesy was a chore for them. If you’re a defense first team, discourtesy should beryllium a chore for nan different team. Look astatine correct now what’s going on. Oklahoma City’s playing against Phoenix. Phoenix has 42 points astatine nan half. We don’t cognize what’s going to hap successful nan 2nd half, but successful nan first half they person 42 points. That’s what a defense squad looks like. That’s really that team, if you opportunity that’s your identity, is expected to play. So either nan Cavs person to say, you cognize what our personality is going to beryllium offense, we’re going to effort and beryllium truthful prolific, we’re going to effort and beryllium truthful move that that’s who we’re going to be. And possibly we’re going to usage lineups that lucifer that a small spot better. Or they conscionable person to find it much consistently and attraction to detail, focus, communication, pursuing nan scouting report, for illustration each those things person to get to a higher level for them defensively. One of those 2 things has to happen. And until 1 of those 2 things happens, past I deliberation you’re going to spot conscionable nan uneven play that we’ve seen passim nan people of this play truthful far.

Ethan Sands: And this is portion of what Kenny Atkinson has talked about. Like location is simply a blueprint to beating nan Cavs. Transition defense, right? That has been an issue, right? Offensive rebounding, that has been an moreover bigger issue. And past you talk astir nan physicality of teams knowing that they tin travel successful and effort and push nan Cavs around. DeAndre Hunter has talked astir it astatine nauseum, trying to show teams that they can’t push you around. He sewage a method coming for pushing Ron Holland, for trying to push him around. Right? That’s a statement. But he can’t beryllium nan only 1 doing it. It’s not conscionable nan Detroit Pistons, moreover though they’re nan first successful nan Eastern Conference and perchance nan Cavs would person to look them astatine immoderate constituent successful nan playoffs. But past you besides talk astir for illustration different teams successful nan regular season, nan Houston Rockets, nan New Orleans Pelicans are still a squad that likes to get downhill, likes to beryllium physical, likes to beryllium handsy. If you’re struggling against that level of team, you’re going to person trouble against nan Boston Celtics, you’re going to person trouble arsenic nan Philadelphia 76, you’re going to person trouble against nan Milwaukee Bucks, but erstwhile you person to spell up against Giannis. But I deliberation this is an denotation of really nan Cavs played successful tonight’s title erstwhile it came to nan modulation discourtesy that they cognize helps them get into nan travel of their crippled truthful overmuch amended than playing successful nan half court. The Cavs were incapable to get retired into nan accelerated break arsenic overmuch arsenic nan Detroit Pistons, which should beryllium alarming. That’s nan different thing. Javante Green made 8 threes successful his 18 contests pinch nan Cleveland Cavaliers past year. You near him unfastened truthful overmuch that he made three. That’s astir half. And that’s a portion of nan rotations and nan defense and each these things. But Chris, I want to attraction connected nan modulation discourtesy correct now and really their discourtesy continues to wounded their defense. And we’ve talked astir that truthful overmuch this season. It’s been appalling.

Chris Fedor: I don’t know. Like I, I get them wanting to push nan pace, but Donovan said thing on nan lines aft nan crippled astir nary teams want to get successful that benignant of crippled pinch us. I don’t cognize that that’s wholly true. I, I don’t know. Yes, nan Cavs successful modulation tin beryllium effective and nan numbers opportunity that. And nan Cavs do request to get retired successful modulation to effort and hunt easier shots earlier nan opposing defense tin get group because sometimes their half tribunal discourtesy tin move into a slog and it tin beryllium very, very difficult for them and it allows immoderate of their athletes to get retired connected nan break, possibly get immoderate speedy threes, things for illustration that. I wholly understand that statement of reasoning and it’s, it’s smart for them to deliberation for illustration that, but I just, I didn’t bargain nan full point from Donovan astir teams don’t want america to do that because we do that amended than anybody else. You cognize what I mean? Like, that’s what he was alluding to. He didn’t constituent blank opportunity that, but that’s what he was alluding to. I don’t cognize that I spot nan Cavs arsenic that benignant of team. Do you?

Ethan Sands: No. Especially erstwhile you person contests for illustration nan Atlanta Hawks, who ran them retired of nan building, for illustration nan Tiana, they can.

Chris Fedor: Run amended than nan Cavs.

Ethan Sands: It’s understandable that nan Cavs are amended erstwhile they’re moving successful transition. So Donovan would want to opportunity that because for illustration their discourtesy becomes prolific successful that benignant of modulation offense, erstwhile they’re moving nan shot that benignant of way, past they participate this benignant of travel state. But if you look across, you spot nan Toronto Raptors, nan Atlanta Hawks, nan Chicago Bulls person each ran them retired of nan building. I deliberation it’s difficult to to opportunity that nan moving facet is what is allowing them to get there. It’s much truthful nan spacing and nan dispersed retired discourtesy that is allowing them to person much opportunities successful space. And I deliberation that’s partially what Kenny Yakinson has been talking astir erstwhile it comes to for illustration lineups and combinations and making judge our players are successful nan correct spots for them to beryllium successful.

Chris Fedor: I deliberation nan different point that we person to talk astir present tonight, Ethan, is that nan chair is conscionable becoming a problem. Now location is nuance present to this speech and we do person to supply nan context. Okay, but nan chair scored 28 points coming for nan Cavs. The Pistons chair scored 51. That is simply a bulldoze successful NBA terms, NBA standards. That is simply a slaughter. And it’s been for illustration that much times than not passim nan people of nan year. Yes, location person been moments wherever guys disconnected nan chair person stepped up. You know, nan minutes from Craig Porter Jr. I do judge were productive coming for nan Cavs, and I judge that they person been productive since nan Cavs made nan rotational alteration to propulsion retired Lonzo Ball unless circumstances dictate that he plays and spell pinch Craig a small spot more. Craig helped them triumph nan San Antonio game. Craig helped nan 4th fourth comeback against Denver nan different night. I thought Craig was effective successful his minutes, particularly coming against Detroit. But like, it’s a problem. It’s nan 2nd slightest productive chair successful nan full NBA. And nan discourse progressive present is evidently that nan CAVs person utilized 19 different starting lineups aft tonight’s game. So, you know, guys are bouncing betwixt starter and bench. Some of nan guys that they thought they were going to person successful nan 2nd portion person been forced into starter roles. Some of nan guys that they’ve had to usage coming disconnected nan chair were expected to beryllium utilized each now and past arsenic opposed to mainstays. So that’s portion of it. DeAndre Hunter, who was either going to commencement aliases travel disconnected nan bench, depending connected what was going to hap pinch Max Drus, for illustration earlier Max sewage his, his ft surgery. One of those 2 guys, either DeAndre aliases Max, was expected to beryllium a afloat clip reserve. Sam Merill was expected to beryllium a afloat clip reserve. So yes, there’s a batch of context. Dean Wade was expected to beryllium a afloat clip reserve. He wasn’t expected to beryllium a starter. That wasn’t nan scheme coming into this season. But if we’re being honorable astir it, the. The moves that nan Cavs made this past offseason and I deliberation it’s an incomplete people because of each nan circumstances that I conscionable talked about, but nan moves that nan Cavs made this past disconnected play to fortify nan chair and to to make them a small spot much versatile and possibly a small spot much dynamic, which 1 of those has worked for illustration nan champion of that group? The astir accordant of that group has been Thomas Bryant. Right. And he conscionable doesn’t play consistently capable to put that arsenic a feather successful your cap. Larry Ants Jr. Was ineffective earlier getting hurt. Let’s spot what it looks for illustration erstwhile he comes backmost from this calf injury. Signs are affirmative for Larry successful position of his return. I do judge that he is going to spell connected this trip, aliases astatine slightest nan scheme is for him to spell connected this roadworthy trip. They play Indy and they play Minnesota. That doesn’t needfully mean that he’s going to play, but I judge that that’s nan 1 plan. He does still person to do different things down nan scenes, but he was speaking successful affirmative position to nan training unit earlier today. So he’s astir apt getting person and let’s spot what it looks for illustration for him. He’s astir apt successful amended style than he was coming into nan twelvemonth because he’s had much of an opportunity connected nan sidelines to benignant of attraction connected immoderate of those things. But earlier he had this injury, he was ineffective for nan astir part. Lonzo is astatine nan constituent of unplayable against precocious level teams. Right. He was bully nan different night. Give him in installments for for what he brought to nan squad coming disconnected nan chair against Denver. But that was against G leaguers and extremity of chair guys for nan astir part. Today against Detroit he looked unplayable. His minutes were not good. What was he? A minus 17. Minus 18. Sorry. And he’s personification that nan Cavs were going to trust on. He’s personification that nan Cavs needed to trust on. He was portion of that 2nd portion makeover. People are ever like, why are you truthful difficult connected Lonzo? Because they request him, Lonzo. For this squad coming into nan year, Lonzo was not expected to beryllium a luxury. He was expected to beryllium a consistent, reliable action coming disconnected nan bench. Ages hasn’t been that successful Tyrese Proctor. It’s conscionable excessively early. It’s excessively early. He was a 2nd information pick. He was nan 49th pick. He’s evidently not successful nan apical 10 of this team. So he shouldn’t beryllium a afloat clip rotation feline anyway. You know, he should be. He should beryllium processing for nan astir portion down nan scenes. But those were for illustration nan 4 large moves. And past nan different large move was resigning Sam Merrill, nan caller additions to this squad that they brought successful to thief fortify this bench. It conscionable hasn’t happened. And past erstwhile you harvester that pinch chair players that person been thrust into starting roles, you astir apt person much of an mentation for what’s happening here, but it’s conscionable not bully capable connected a nightly basis. And moreover Kenny Atkinson said pursuing nan game, Ethan, he said we person to reexamine this. Do we put 2 stars retired location astatine each times? I mean, that’s hard. It’s difficult to do, but possibly you person to research that. So I deliberation it’s bully that Kenny sees nan problem and it’s clear that he’s searching for solutions. We talked astir this connected nan erstwhile podcast. He is searching for solutions, he’s searching for lineups, he’s searching for combinations. But it’s, it’s conscionable not bully capable and it’s not reliable capable from nan 2nd portion correct now. They. They request much from these guys than. Than what they’re getting to beryllium nan squad that they want to be.

Ethan Sands: And Chris, to your constituent astir nan chair accumulation aliases deficiency thereof for today’s game, Dennis Jenkins vanished pinch 25 points. As you mentioned earlier, nan Cavs chair wholly had 28. So they were outscored by a 2 measurement subordinate that is astir six ft one, six ft 2 and had almost 25 points. Was 7 of 7 and six of six successful 1 quarter. And that’s fundamentally each he scored. So you tin show maine that he outscored nan Cavs chair fundamentally for nan full crippled successful 1 court. And I deliberation that is telling, but it also, arsenic you mentioned, Chris, location is different discourse that needs to beryllium said. I do still deliberation that nan Cavs bench, erstwhile afloat patient should beryllium 1 of nan astir vulnerable successful nan NBA. But nan astir difficult occupation of a coach, arsenic talked to, arsenic I mentioned pinch different opposing coaches, Kenny Atkinson is not only re acclimating these players aft injury, getting them into a rhythm, allowing them to find travel and get acclimated pinch virtually conscionable nan plays that they’re Running, but besides uncovering places to return players who are successful hit aliases who person been playing each play retired aliases giving them little minutes aliases uncovering them successful combinations and successful lineups. We’re talking astir Kenny Atkinson struggling to find combinations successful lineups that person been successful without 3 aliases 4 players, astatine slightest successful almost each game, being unavailable. Now we’re telling maine if this squad is afloat healthy, they’re going to person much options, which is going to make those combinations and lineups harder to find and smaller sample sizes to spell disconnected of. And we know, arsenic Chris mentions connected almost each podcast, Kenny is simply a stats based guy. So you’re telling maine these smaller sample sizes are going to do little justness to what Kenny needs to see? And particularly if we’re talking astir Max Drew perchance returning successful nan adjacent fewer weeks. Yeah, this is going to opportunity you person for illustration 40 games near successful nan season. How are you going to respond? How has nan remainder of nan squad going to respond? And it’s not needfully built connected chemistry and karate. We cognize they person that, but it’s legitimately astir really they play alongside each different and that could beryllium difficult because you don’t cognize which lever to pull. And to this constituent successful nan season, not to beryllium harsh, but Keddie Akinson hasn’t proven moving that he tin push nan correct fastener successful these kinds of situations.

Chris Fedor: Yeah, I deliberation it remains to beryllium seen. I deliberation location are affirmative signs. Obviously he pushed nan lonzo button, started that past week. That’s a affirmative sign. That’s, that’s a recognition. The information supports that. That’s a nickname of, of Craig conscionable being much consistently impactful. He pushed nan Naquan button. He’s giving him much of an opportunity and extended opportunity. You could beryllium location and you could say, well, that wasn’t nan scheme coming in. No, he’s connected nan 2 measurement statement for a reason. But for nan astir portion I didn’t deliberation he was very bully today. I thought he was benignant of retired of control. But for nan astir portion nan numbers opportunity that, that he has been effective and nan Cavs person been a bully squad pinch him connected nan floor. So I do think, yes, Kenny is searching. I do deliberation that he has struggled pinch lineups and combinations. It took him a while to get to Dean Wade successful nan starting lineup. It took him a while to push nan lonzo button. It took him a while to springiness much opportunity to Naquan. But arsenic agelong and it’s hard, right. But arsenic agelong arsenic he arrives astatine nan and it’s been benignant of not a consecutive line. But arsenic agelong arsenic he arrives astatine nan correct destination for erstwhile it matters most, location still is that large image that. That looms complete this team. In saying that, like, successful saying each of that, they aren’t successful nan champion place, they aren’t successful a bully spot from a standings perspective. They do person crushed to dress up here, and arsenic Kenny continues to tinker and experiment, if that leads to much shortcomings and losses, they don’t really person that overmuch wiggle room successful nan standings. At immoderate point, we are going to get to a agelong of nan play wherever we say, hey, they gotta pursuit immoderate much wins present because they’ve sewage to find a measurement to possibly get location tribunal advantage successful round. Like, I don’t cognize what nan nonstop extremity is from that perspective, but eighth successful nan Eastern Conference isn’t a really cozy spot to beryllium if you want to pursuit a championship. I deliberation apical three, possibly that’s the.

Ethan Sands: Goal astatine this point.

Chris Fedor: Maybe that should beryllium nan extremity astatine this point. But there’s. There’s rather a climb for nan Cavs to get there, and it’s not a business for illustration past twelvemonth wherever you conscionable consciousness for illustration nan Cavs are truthful prolific, they’re truthful dominant, they’re truthful overwhelming pinch their talent and their prolific discourtesy that they’re just. And. And they person specified a reliable, accordant chair that they’re conscionable going to rack up these wins. You cognize what I mean? Like, I conscionable don’t spot them arsenic that team. Maybe they get there. Maybe nan wellness helps them get there, but location is going to beryllium a agelong wherever we’re going to beryllium present and say, like, hey, I cognize you want to experiment. I cognize you want to tinker. I cognize you consciousness for illustration this is bully for Craig Porter Jr. And Naquan Tomlin and Jaylon Tyson and each these different young guys to get this acquisition and these kinds of opportunities. And it’s benignant of a byproduct of everything that has happened successful nan first mates of months of nan season. But location is going to beryllium a agelong wherever you say, like, that worldly mightiness person to spell to nan broadside and you mightiness person to commencement chasing immoderate wins present to crawl retired of this position that you put yourself in.

Ethan Sands: And, Chris, we’ve continuously called it an experimentation period. Period is closing, right? We’re talking astir nearing nan waste and acquisition deadline, and that mightiness beryllium nan model of wherever nan Cows are figuring retired who they are and wherever they are successful standings, because presently they’re eighth successful nan Eastern Conference. They’re 3 and a half games retired of Third place. They do person nan Indiana Pacers, who are astir apt nan worst squad successful nan NBA this play successful their adjacent title connected Tuesday. But aft that they sewage nan Minnesota Timberwolves twice, nan Utah Jazz, who, though beautiful bad, person fixed immoderate decent teams tally for their money.

Chris Fedor: They tin score. That’s 1 point you tin opportunity astir them.

Ethan Sands: That’s true. And nan Philadelphia 76ers, past nan Oklahoma City Thunder, and that’s conscionable January 19th. Chris and truthful I deliberation there’s a agelong of games present wherever nan Cavs are going to beryllium tested and they person to fig thing out, whether it’s an identity, whether it’s operation successful lineups. This squad has talked astir uncovering themselves each season.

Chris Fedor: I mean, you don’t want to measurement them against Detroit because that’s not nan extremity each beryllium each and that’s not what we thought coming into this year. But moreover Sam Merrill said it aft nan game. Donovan Mitchell didn’t want to spell there, but he benignant of said it. He didn’t opportunity it constituent blank. He benignant of danced astir it a small spot because I don’t deliberation he wanted to put that retired there. But it, but it’s clear successful watching nan crippled and it’s conscionable 1 crippled and you don’t want to overreact to 1 game. But like, Detroit has much answers astir who they are and for illustration lineups and combinations and worldly for illustration that than nan Cavs do astatine this point. And they’re further along. They are amended than nan Caps, nan Boston Celtics, for everything we thought coming into this year, astatine this constituent they are better, they are further on than nan Cavs, right? At this constituent nan New York Knicks are amended and further on than nan Cavs, and it’s up to nan Cavs to beryllium that they tin dress up that ground. And it’s up to nan Cavs, moreover though they’re not connected that level correct now. It’s up to nan Cavs to, to show that yet we tin get there. And, and present are nan reasons why I deliberation nan agelong that they’ve had here, astir precocious nan triumph against San Antonio, you know, nan comeback against Denver, they person been playing amended basketball, but it’s still not to nan modular that they person group for themselves. It’s still not to nan modular that they should person for themselves if they again want to compete for an Eastern Conference crown. So it’s up to them to proceed to beryllium location are going to beryllium group that inquire questions astir them, location are going to beryllium group that are doubting them. They person inflamed immoderate of those things, right? So it’s up to them to consistently show that you’re right. We’re not connected that level correct now. We’re not wherever we want to be, but we can. We do person nan makings of being a amended squad than what we person shown truthful far. Today was not an illustration of that though. Like coming is not thing that they could constituent to and say, present are immoderate reasons why they conscionable didn’t look.

Ethan Sands: On Detroit’s level and I conjecture we’ll find retired if they tin ever get there. But it starts connected Tuesday against nan Indiana Pacers. Banking a triumph that is overmuch needed for this Cavs statement can’t springiness that zip win, no, and particularly because they’ll astir apt beryllium without Benedict Matheran. Should beryllium a cakewalk. But again, arsenic we’ve seen pinch this Cavs team, you cannot return anybody for granted. It’s nan NBA. Wins are difficult to travel by. Then we person this agelong of games that I mentioned that nan Cavs will beryllium tested and we’ll spot really they respond. And that’s what Donovan Mitchell and nan Cavs person been trying to return lessons from. How do they proceed to respond to adversity? How are they mounting themselves up to propulsion backmost from these things erstwhile it comes down to playoff time? That’s nan goal. And they’re building up these stressors, Chris, for erstwhile nan playoff comes astir that they tin propulsion backmost to do erstwhile nan clip comes. But pinch each that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s section of nan Want and Gold Talk podcast. But retrieve to go a CAS insider and interact pinch Chris, maine and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is wherever you tin nonstop successful your play hey Chris. Questions get a outcry retired connected nan podcast, but nan only measurement to do truthful is signing up for a free 14 time free proceedings aliases visiting cleveland.com Cavs and clicking connected nan bluish barroom astatine nan apical of nan page. If you don’t for illustration it, that’s fine. All you person to do is matter nan connection stop. It’s easy, but we tin show you that nan group who signed up instrumentality astir because this is nan champion measurement to get insider sum connected nan Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t conscionable our podcast, it’s your podcast. And nan only measurement to person your sound heard is done immoderate text. Y’ each beryllium safe. We out.